I keep smacking DD.

[haroldthecat]

i'm starting to lose it. Everyday i end up shouting and screaming at her. She never does what she's told. She winds me up and it's got to a stage where i feel so tense and within an instant i flip and a surge of anger takes over me and i smack her. Yesterday i smacked her several times in a row. I hate myself for it. We have a new baby 5 months old. I know she feels put out by his arrival. I've obviously dealt with this very badly. I don't enjoy being with my dd. In fact it fills me with dread sometimes. Her behaviour is so challenging at times and she demands a huge amount of attention which i can't seem to fulfill adequately. I feel exhausted and drained. I love her so much but don't enjoy being with her right now. I have no family nearby. I feel so ashamed and so alone. I don't mind if you judge me. What kind of mother snacks their children anyway. My dd is 5. Only a little girl. What am i doing to her??

oh, and being a sep ahead of your peers does not rule out adhd!!

I, like Colditz, did not agree with NanaNina's description of smacking being illegal. And find her view evn more frightening becasue she is a SW'er.
Becasue currently in the UK it is not.
"In the UK, spanking or smacking is legal, but it may not leave a mark on the" - this quote can be found just about anywhere on the internet.

OP, you definitely need help, support and to give this issue some serious thought. Which you obviously are or else there wouldn't be this OP.
You have had some good advice and I hope you take this.

By the way, I smacked ds1, a few times, when he was 4. Lack of control on my part and I am still not proud.
He never did what he was told, always difficult, and I had been to many parenting courses that me that what I was doing was all correct. So why was it not working?
When he was 5, in reception, ds2 born, non sleeping screaming baby, my diabetes gone mad, thats when things were at the worst.
He is incredibly bright and is now (aged nearly 7) being assessed for Aspergers. Sound familiar OP ? Maybe a possibility ?

Agree with becaroodolf's posts.

The best advice I've heard on here was imagine you are on cctv/being filmed for a parenting programme/reality tv.

I just think what would my friends think if they could hear me?

I find if you feel things spiralling it's helpful to switch the mood. So I say that the behaviour is out of order, but then I'm all singing all dancing dynamic mummy who suggests junk modelling or a HSM dance off (this is not in my nature but I do have to do it in emergencies).

This may sound terrible, but when my twins were tiny babies and ds1 was 3(he is autistic and was a handful then) I dealt with the twins needs-breastfeeding and so on, but I didn't pay them much attention when I had ds1 after preschool.

The babies had me in the night, when ds1 was at preschool and the evening, and I just felt that ds1 (who was wigging out big time) needed my attention more.

So I could be feeding them/changing nappies, but I was always talking to ds1. I prioritised him-baby in a stinky nappy and ds1 moaning about something-I'd go to ds1 first.

When you're dd comes home from school it's her time. My lot can be vile with tiredness after school, but if I've sorted snacks, tea and put an activity out (just paints or something) it goes a lot better.

I know bad behaviour outside the home is excruciating.
I try to adopt my dh's attitude and not give a stuff about what people think. I used to just take ds1 home if it was all going crap-no point in persevering with an outing if no one's enjoying it. Or if you have to stay then give baby to willing hands/put in pram with dummy and focus entirely on dd and engaging her in something positive.

If it's adhd or if she's 'brushed' by it (ds1 has a definate dx of aspergers, but other family members are what I'd call brushed by it) then that is very hard work. Have you looked into PDA? With my friend's adhd little girl she finds distraction the best form of behaviour management.

Sorry for rambling on.
Glad you're feeling a bit better.

You need a good chat with dh,gp,health visitor and friends.
I would feed twins then hand them straight to dh (at weekends) and take ds1 off to the park.

Agree. The 'being filmed' idea works for me. I try not to shout. But do. But even then, I try and remember the filming idea, and how ashamed I would be.
Works for me.

She sounds a bit like my dd who is also very bright. That kind of behavior is exhausting. I find what helps is to pre- emp a lot of it. So I will tell her when bedtime is and give het lots of warnings. There will be two stories and to think carefuuly before choosing etc, etc. I get her to agree to plan before we do anything. I also tell her if she does what she is told she gets special time with me after dd2 is in bed. If not it's straight to bed. Tantrums I completely ignore. And I mean I ignore her. She hates it but it does work. Do not react. I also use the marble jar in conjunction with a shed load of pre-empting. She is now loads better but she does need lots of warnings and to have no surprises. Not sure wheter any of this helps but wanted to share.

Good luck Harold. And please do see the doc and hv.

becaroodolf- is wording your post like that really going to help the op?

Slapping isn't abuse or illegal. Some hitting is, so I dont think that using these words interchangably is a good idea. It confuses the issue. The op already feels guilty. If she is made to feel like a criminal/child abuser she is less likely to seek help.

I think it's too easy for people who have good-natured, easy going DCs to have black and white views on the smacking issue. Until you have had a difficult/challenging child you dont really know how you would react in that situation. It isn't just about how the adult feels, some children are easier to parent than others. I swore I'd never smack mine and I never have with DD, but DS is another matter. The variable there is the child not the adult.

harold- You say she doesnt do what you ask- can you give examples of what she has refused to do. Some children are very disobedient. But maybe your expectations are too high. If she's full of energy try taking her to a soft play to burn it off. Is she genuinly not tired at bedtime? If so maybe better to push it forward so it's not such a battle. As for asking for a different story, that is far too demanding, dont give in to her. Do you think that she sees your guilt over the smacking and is manipulating you? All these 'needs' at bedtime are probably just ways of getting your attention. At her age she is old enough to get a drink etc herself so let her do it but dont get involved yourself IYSWIM. If she's really bright can you do some extra workbooks with her at home to keep her mind occupied and give you some 1-on-1 time?

Harold - I'm glad you are feeling a bit better since posting.

I don't like keeping the door shut with the child inside, I think it is scary for a child to be (essentially) locked in.

I really think you should just try the positive attention and try to spend more time one on one with her.

As for your DH, I don't know how to get him to change his attitude. I think you need to 'pick your time' for a chat and really try hard to get him to understand that they are as much his children as yours. We all find aspects of caring for the children boring - but it's all part and parcel of being a parent.

I also think that DS has you all to himself all day, so when DD comes home, you should focus a bit more on her and what she wants, needs. Even to the point of saying 'DS, you need to wait a minute, Mummy is helping DD right now' 'DS it's DD's turn, I will help you in a minute' 'DD when we have finished this, we will need to change DS's nappy because he's a baby and needs us to help him' 'DS crying wont help, I will see to you in a minute' (she sees that he cries and gets attention - why shouldn't she play up to get attention). I'm not saying ignore the baby, but just talk to them both.

It wont hurt DS and it will help DD to feel special, like the big girl - Mummy's best girl etc

Can I just clarify what I said about smacking being illegal and realise now that this was misleading. The point I was trying to make is that the police do have the right to convict someone of an assault if a child has been smacked, hit, shook, kicked etc. Clearly it is a matter of how hard the child has been hit etc (which many posters have pointed out)and whether marks have been left.

However there was a case a few years ago of a father smacking his daughter in a dentist's waiting room (don't know if anyone remembers it) and the receptionist reported the matter to the police, and the father was charged with assault. However the Crown Prosecution Service decided there was insufficent evidence to bring the matter before the court and the father was cautioned by the police.

I was just trying to point out that it is a risk to smack, hit, kick, shake a child etc., and totally accept that the police could only charge someone if there was evidence ie. marks on a child that were perceived to be as a result of over chastisement,

Apologies for this misleading post. I am no longer a social worker so please Oblomov don't feel "frightened" about my post. I would hate this thread to get into a social worker debate. When a foster carer smacked, shook or hit a child, we always found the police very willing to accept our point of view that nothing could be achieved by a prosecution and it was a matter for the SSD to investigate the matter and take appropriate action. For instance sometimes carers were de-registered (one carer held a teenage lad by the throat and shoved him against a wall) and would not accept that what he had done was wholly wrong and we did de-register him. However with many cases,, it was simply a matter of talking things over with the carer and putting in more support or acknowledging that the placement was no longer viable, and moving the child.

Once again apologies for my misleading post. I should have explained what I actually meant. Sorry OP for "diverting" a little from this thread.

Right. I've phoned my hv. She's coming tomorrow. Dr's appointment also arranged for 4.20 today. I wouldn't have done this without the back up of you lot :) I'm worried sick of course. I have it in my head that i'll be whisked away to a psychiatric unit kicking and screaming. My weekend was good, dd was fantastic. I kept re-reading some of the posts here and it really has given me the strength to get by. I did try and discuss my feelings with dh late last night but it ended in a row and i went to bed crying. Will have to bring dd to gp with me today which might make it difficult for me to tell all to to doc. I'll let you know how i get on and thanks so much for holding me up there last few days x

You wont be whisked away - blimey - if they whisked away everyone in your situation MN would be like shouting into a void!

I'm sorry that talking to DH ended in a row :( Do you know why that happened?

Maybe if you ask really, really nicely the receptionist will keep an eye on DD when you go in if you take something along for her to eat/amuse herself with?! Or can you not ring back and see if they have another appointment today/tomorrow while she's at school? Can a neighbour mind her for a bit? I don't think it's a brilliant idea to talk about this in front of her.

I'm glad you have called the Drs and the HV :)

I really, really disagree with putting a child in a room and holding the door closed - I think it's a scary thing to do to a child.

OP: Thats fantastic!!! Well done you! I am proud of you!

darleneconnor If you think having a baby with suspected CP who only sleeps in 40 min stretches day and night and who ended up in and out of hospital for his 1st 6 months "easy" then I am afraid I cant agree with you!

I have had many challenges with my 2 dc over the years BUT I have NEVER smacked/hit either of them - that doesnt make me a saint and it doesnt mean I have never felt like it.
Feeling liek and doing it are 2 different things.

Part of being an adult is about being able to exercise restraint, surely?

Every person on here who has smacked/hit their dc has regretted it...that tell you anything?

OP: do let us know how you get on? I am sorry your dh is ot being supportive but you ahve us!!!

Excellent news, harold. Well done! Don't worry, they will want to support you, not cart you off. Maybe DH will take things a bit more seriously once you have GP and HV backing you up ... or am I too optimistic?

Yes Becaroodolf - it does say something. It says that the parents who do smack and don't regret it, don't say so because it's not worth the drama it causes or the guaranteed smacking is smacking v smacking is hitting debate that always follows.

The doctor's appointment went very well. ChippingIn I did ask the receptionist if dd could stay with her whilst I had the appointment as I had sensitive issues to discuss but she kindly informed me that she isn't a "babysitting service" :) I did bring some chewy sweets and a CBeebies comic for dd and she sat on the floor and only half listed to what I was telling the doc

I did manage to be cryptic and described my low mood, lack of support, short temper which I described as "taking it all out on dd". I had to complete an "Edinburgh Scale" which I scored highly in. This apparently indicates PND. I said my hv was coming tomorrow morning and I would tell her everything and will give HV permission to discuss our appointment with GP after our meeting. GP discussed medication briefly which isn't really an option as I'm bf. I'm going back to GP in two weeks.

Meanwhile DD has been a bit off this evening, whinging and whining a bit but I took the advice of defineme and had a sticking and glueing activity ready and also ChippingIn and pretty much ignored DS all afternoon and did we things.

Parsnips thank you for your support. I hope DH will take things seriously. I don't want to bring it up with him today, I hope he asks how things went instead.

Thanks again and I'll let you know how I get on with HV x

Really dont understand how an adult can ever rationalise hitting a child EVER.

The sight of a grown woman (or man) using their size and physical strength to intimidate a (sometimes very young) child nauseates me.

I speak as a child who was "smacked". I speak as a child whose mother had clinical depression. I speak as a child who was once "smacked" so hard she flew across the room and hit her head on TV. Most of the time it didnt leave a mark...so I guess that makes it ok? Right?

There is never an excuse. Never.

OP GP receptionists...lovely bunch, arent they???

I was going to mention the "Edinburgh scale". If you scored highly then that does indicate PND.

I am not sure about your comment re; meds. I seem to think there are some you can take whilst bf....I would put a post on the BF thread and ask there...they will know far more than your GP!

Is there any chance you could make a GP app and get your dh to go along with you??

Let us know how you get on with the HV tomorrow x

Becaroodolf - then start another thread or 'active search' other thread, this is not the place for a debate on smacking.

Harold, there are meds you can take while BF - ask on both the BF and mental health boards - the wise MN'ers will give you some advice (far more combined knowledge than most GP's!). Once you have a couple of names then see if you can bring your GP visit forward a bit, you don't really want to wait another 2 weeks for some meds.

How was DD once you started sticking/glueing and semi ignoring DS? A bit better?

Some Drs receptionists are so up themselves. I know they are busy but you were only asking her to keep and eye on her, not take her to the playground

I hope DH asks you how it went x

Glad it went well, harold. As becaroodolf says, start a new thread about antidepressants and bf. Did your GP suggest anything else to help - counselling or CBT or something? It would be a very good idea if you could get your DH to come with you - do they do weekend or evening appts?

becaroodolf that sounds awful and was abuse, no question. However, when I was growing up, pretty much every kid had the odd smack when they were naughty, frequently by teachers, too. I don't want to go down the 'it never did me any harm' route, but it honestly wasn't abuse, just a different style of parenting that's gone out of fashion, which is probably for the best.

Good luck with the HV harold x

chipping We will agree to disagree.

POP I dont feel abused....just like she took her frustrations out on a child who didnt have a clue what they had done wrong.
Of course, most of the time I hadnt done anything, it was her illness.

I am not sure about "different style of parenting"....we used to stick children in factories and down mines and up chimneys. We dont do that anymore either thank goodness.

OP Do keep us posted x

How is it going Harold? Dd has been pretty challenging this week. Dd2 has been I'll and has demanded an awful lit of my time so I think that is why. She us also really tired and ready for the end of term, as I am sure is your dd. Hope you are getting some support. Has your dh realised he needs to support you more?