I keep smacking DD.

[haroldthecat]

i'm starting to lose it. Everyday i end up shouting and screaming at her. She never does what she's told. She winds me up and it's got to a stage where i feel so tense and within an instant i flip and a surge of anger takes over me and i smack her. Yesterday i smacked her several times in a row. I hate myself for it. We have a new baby 5 months old. I know she feels put out by his arrival. I've obviously dealt with this very badly. I don't enjoy being with my dd. In fact it fills me with dread sometimes. Her behaviour is so challenging at times and she demands a huge amount of attention which i can't seem to fulfill adequately. I feel exhausted and drained. I love her so much but don't enjoy being with her right now. I have no family nearby. I feel so ashamed and so alone. I don't mind if you judge me. What kind of mother snacks their children anyway. My dd is 5. Only a little girl. What am i doing to her??

Mrmanager- a smack isn't abuse if it doesn't leave a mark.

If SS took away all the DCs in the country who had ever been shouted and screamed at by their parents then there would hardly be any families left!

You seem to have an odd agenda on this thread. do you really think it would be in this child's best interests to spend the next 10 years in a home?

harold- your DP needs to step up here. Does he do no childcare at all in the evenings/weekends? Is he aware of what is going on?

Could you put DD in after school care to give yourself a few more hours of respite a day? I found the flexible pick up time really beneficial when I had a new born and a 5yo. It will also give her some social time away from the streses of home so might improve her behaviour.

darleneconnor sorry but that comment is as unhelpful as MrManagers! If a child is smacked excessively it can definitely be abuse even if it leaves no mark.

a smack isn't abuse if it doesn't leave a mark?Are you serious? this is nonsense

Harold you can get through this but you do need help and strategies. Agree that your dh needs to step up. And don't be scared of talking to the doctor and hv, they are there to help you through this. You also do need to talk to your Dd - she is old enough to understand action and consequence. And whilst the school say they have no problem with her behavior perhaps they can help support you implent your strategies and reinforce them.

You sound very defeated could be a sign of pnd so Please see the doctor. In the short term, walk away when you feel the rage.

Well done for seeking help with this. I hope you get some in rl.

Harold - please don't be afraid of asking your Dr or anyone else for help. MrManager has his own agenda in life and it isn't supporting anyone. Of course it's not right to keep smacking her like this, you know that, it's why you have asked for help. I am not totally anti-smacking, but like this - it's not good, but you know that already.

What area are you in? Would you let a MN'er come and help you out a bit?

Why does DH not do 'childcare' does he not understand that they are his children as well? Did he not realise that being a Dad means actually looking after them? Why are you letting him be such an arse? What would happen if you took DD out for a couple of hours on your own and left DS with DH?

Your DD would not be better off 'in care' she needs you. She is still only little and wants her Mummy back - the one she had before DS arrived, it's only natural. You need to find a way to spend time with her on her own - when she gets this time she will be less of a handful at other times. She is showing you how unhappy she is, the only way she knows how, she is getting your attention the only way she knows how :(

She is acting up to get your love & attention - you need to give her more of this to stop her 'naughty' behaviour.

Haroldthecat - also here to try to offer support to you. I think we should all stop replyto Mrmanager (hope he is a man and not a woman. I was a social worker in childrens services for almost 30 years (recently retired) and I can assure you that SSD will not "take your child away" because you are shouting at her and smacking her (eventhough it is against the law and legally anyone who assaults a child (even by smacking) could be charged with a S47 assault in the same way as if you went up to an adult in a supermarket and "smacked" them.

I worked with foster carers who cared for very very troubled children with all kinds of behaviour problems and they were all told that smacking was not allowed. However we also said that if they did do it in temper, would they please tell us, so that we could re-assess the placement and help the carer to prevent this kind of thing happening. We did not hold with carers who said they smacked in "cold blood" as it were, as this seemed to us to be far worse, that losing your rage and slapping (it's called being human!)

As most people have said you wouldn't be posting on here if you thought what you were doing was ok. Can I ask has your little girl only become "naughty" since the new baby arrived. After all she has presumably had your undivided attention for 5 years. I agree absolutely with Chipping IN. Your daughter is giving you a clear message with her naughtiness - it means "I'm jealous, I'm frightened you don't love me any more, I want my mommy back and that baby to go away"
Negative attention (for a child) as often seen as better than no attention. Seems you are in a vicous circle, DD thinks you don't love her anymore, only the new baby, so she gets more and more wilful etc and then you shout and smack and then she is sure you don't love her and becomes worse and round and round you go in this viscous circle.

Agree with everyone who says you could have PND or just be exhausted with the demands of the new baby and your DD's reaction. Be brave and talk to the HV (be honest) and ask for help as others have suggested. Your DD needs positive parenting, ignoring as much as possible the unacceptable behaviour and praising (in a fairly dramtic way) any good behaviour "WOW HOW good are you my best girl"
etc etc.

Things will start to level out, your DD will get used to the new baby and getting less attention, the new baby will be less demanding and you will be less tired and possibly depressed. WELL DONE for coming on here and admitting something you know is not on - and it isn't on - It HAS TO STOP, but you need support. Please don't (as someone suggested put your DD in after school club) she needs more time with you not less.

Let us know how you get on......and sending you good wishes.

That was meant to say "losing your rag" not your rage!

you sound out of control with this behaviour toward you child and you need an urgent assessment for PND. you don't have to tell the dr about the smacking but you absolutely HAVE to do something to turn this around.

Please speak to your HV, she will not judge and hopefully will get you some help.

I was getting to this stage last year and we have definitely turned a corner.

There is help out there but you have to ask.

If you want to pm me please do.

Again thank you for all support and advice. I've found it very useful. Yesterday was a good day. I spend a bit of time with dd just chatting and playing. She was very affectionate and told me out of the blue that she loves me "more than the moon and all the planets" which made me burst into tears which confused dd! My emotions are haywire and i will call my hv in the morning to discuss how i'm feeling. Dd was reasonably well behaved yesterday but still pushed those borders on occasion, especially at bedtime. I could feel myself getting angry and it would've been easy to indulge myself in shouting and screaming but -i didn't-. I should add that when i do get these surges of anger i don't always smack - i scream and shout and slam doors - i have smacked handful of times. Still makes it utterly wrong but don't want you thinking it's happening on a daily basis. It's not. With regard to dh - i think if finds childcare boring. Whenever he "looks after" them so i can get a rest or a bath or whatever he tends to put the telly on, give dd a bag of sweets and he goes off to fix a door handle/wash his car/mow the lawn. I've asked him to help at night with DS (who is bf) just to fetch him from his cot or stick his dummy in but dh usually just grunts and does nothing. When i try to discuss the possibility of him helping he accuses me of nagging. I wish he would step up to the mark but how do you make him? I don't think it's possible. Thanks again and i will remember that i have your support as i embark on another day and hope that it can see me through x

Pleased to hear you can see a bit of light at the end of the tunnel Harold. Lots and lots of us have been there and I think NanaNina's advice is sensible and measured. Do not be scared to be honest with someone.

Also with DP it is difficult to make them understand the level of work involved with children as they see them not so much and can do all the fun stuff, my DH often really misses the point when he comes home from London and slumps in his pyjamas and I am still running aaound. Granted he does have a very long day but we are both up at the same time and I have four children to look after and sometimes I know he is thinking I am nagging, but do try to talk calmly to your DP and be straight with him.

It is very hard to share yourself between two children when you are knackered, we all know it is not OK for you to smack her (I am not anti smacking per se but you know when you have crossed a line) it is horrible to get into a negative black hold with shouting at your child you love so much and for some reason it all seems to be self perpetuating - do you think you might be a bit depressed anyway? worried me that you think she should be taken away.... you are a good mummy because you have come here and asked for help and you are trying to right a wrong. Keep going,keep trying to do the right thing and it will pass.

You poor thing, you are having a tough time.

I have a 5 year old and a 10 month old, my older childs behaviour can certainly be challenging at times.

Once the novelty of a new baby sister wore off and he realised she was here to stay he has certainly had his moments, a child who had never had a tantrum he has surely made up for it now.
Luckily he adores his wee sister but is pissed off that he no longer gets 100% attention.

Having had PND, for me, when the bad days outweigh the good ones action is needed.

The only thing that works with DS is removing stuff, banning TV or DVD, taking certain toys.

I have learned to laugh now at his outrageous behaviour, seriously when he is kicking off I just look at him, ignore him and think to myself how silly he looks. I do not get into an argument with him, sometimes difficult not to.

Speak to your health visitor and get some support.

Also meant to say, we make sure he gets a lot of 1-1 time with either me, DP or his grandparents who are great support.
Still doesn't stop the daft behaviour for long unfortunately.

Morning Harold, I'll be thinking of you today and wishing you strength to get through. Well done for managing DD so well last night.

It's really tricky if your DH won't help. He is being unreasonable - does he know just how desperate you are feeling? It's not a case of him 'helping you out' - they're his DCs too. Does he honestly believe that mothers never find looking after kids boring too?

What's the weather like where you are? If you can, try going out together as a family today. Sometimes those 'I need more from you' conversations go better and sound less 'naggy' when you're away from the immediate problem.

Could you show him this thread? It's important to make him realise how difficult you're finding things.

Just found a link to this article on another thread. Sorry, it's Daily Mail, but worth a read.

Hold on justtttt a second - when did smacking become illegal? Because last time I heard anything about it, marking a child was illegal, smacking head and face is illegal, using an implement is illegal - but smacking with an open palm was still NOT illegal.

So when did that happen?

"Smacking and the Law in the United Kingdom
Prior to 1998, British parents were afforded the right to use ?reasonable chastisement? to discipline their children but the subjective term ?reasonable? was never well explained. In September of that year, the European Court of Human Rights decided that this law did not adequately protect children?s rights and so the Children?s Act of 2004 sought to clarify the laws surrounding smacking. Under Section 58 of the Act, smacking remains legal as long as it does not cause visible bruises, grazes, scratches, swelling or cuts. As of June 2007, these conditions provoked a Ministerial review of Section 58 of the Children?s Act with some Ministers again calling for an outright ban on smacking children. Scotland operates some smacking bans, and strict definitions of ?reasonable? punishments. The Northern Ireland Commissioner for Children and Young People is seeking a full and outright ban on smacking children."

So, now we have clarified that the OP has not broken the law, here is some support.

next time you feel that rage, dig your nails into the palms of your hands for a second, then remove her to her room and hold the door shut for 5 minutes (and longer if you still think you might smack her if she comes out). She is MUCH safer in her room throwing a tantrum than she is being slapped in a rage.

And keep doing it. She will get bored of the inside of her room eventually, and with you holding the door shut between you, she cannot rage too much at you, and you cannot smack her.

Thanks. It's incredible how i feel since posting here. The support has been amazing and i feel the weight gradually lifting from my shoulders. So far so good today. We're going out later Parsnips to see some friends. Not really am appropriate time for discussion with dh. I'm feeling anxious about it though because of dd's unpredictable behaviour. This is where (i think) the cycle starts - she acts up in public, major tantrum follows where she kicks off uncontrolably etc by the time we're home i've lost my temper, tears all round, shouting and screaming and you know the rest. I'm trying to be positive and just get through each hour. I would be embarrassed to show dh this thread. It's like having another child really. We've been together since our teens nearly 20 years ago but he hasn't matured very much... This morning i got up with dc at 6am. I was struggling by 7.30 and by 8 i had to go and wake him as dd is keen to get decorating the xmas tree and ds was screaming his head off. I called dh several times to come and help but he crawled out of bed at 9.30. We're all in the dining room (playroom) and when dh surfaced he got the coffee maker on, made a leisurely breakfast which he then brought into to living room to eat, leaving me waiting til 10am to get a minute. If only i had the luxury of eating my breakfast without a screaming baby on my knee and a high maintenance hyperactive 5 year old swinging out of me. I don't challenge him enough because i really don't need the hassle. And i don't want ANOTHER arguement, more tears etc x

i have a troublesome dd ,now a teen.....you have to LEAVE THE ROOM

i have learnt this the hard way. leave her to it. on friday night i had to leave my dd in a room alone whilst she got the biggest knife i had and she started stabbing angrily at some presents she had bought (i had grounded her)

i held the door shut and dialled 999 and waited til armed response unit arrived. all the time i was worried sick she would injure herself with that knife!

colditz just to say i have done this - the confining to room thing. She goes BERSERK. She thrashes her room, breaks things and throws things. She screams so loudly that i'm sure the neighbours hear. She doesn't give up. I tell her from the other side of the door that when she's calm i'll open the door. Only once she pretended to be calm so i went in and she charged towards me at full force thumping and kicking me. I can't do it again. I just don't have the strength.

never underestimate the power of laughter, OP.

it does sound like you have PND, not helped by your ass of a husband but when you're back on more of an even keel and have kicked him into touch, try different techniques of coping with a stropping child.

laughing about something, not taking it seriously and finding the humour in it, can have a massive impact. at the moment she gets a massive reaction , albeit a bad one. next time try minimal reaction and make light of the whole thing... she'll initially be confused but i bet she soon changes her tune.

colditz just to say i have done this - the confining to room thing. She goes BERSERK. She thrashes her room, breaks things and throws things. She screams so loudly that i'm sure the neighbours hear. She doesn't give up. I tell her from the other side of the door that when she's calm i'll open the door. Only once she pretended to be calm so i went in and she charged towards me at full force thumping and kicking me. I can't do it again. I just don't have the strength.