PND, how long will I feel like this, Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

[fantus]

Sorry if this gets long and confused but I just need to put it down somewhere.

I have a 4 year old and 6 month old. Over the past few weeks my mood has got lower and lower to the point where I feel tearful every day and can't see an end to feeling this way. I spoke to my health visitor yesterday and she is coming to see me next week as she thinks I have PND.

I know it's very personal but can anyone share any experiences or let me know if any of this sounds normal?

I just feel so ungrateful for what I have. We tried for 2 years to have our 6 month old with 2 mmc and I know I should be so happy but some days I just wake up dreading facing another day. But other days I don't feel so bad. Does PND come and go like this? Also could it be sleep deprivation? DD is up every night for at least an hour. Sometimes I think everything would be so much better if I could just get a good nights sleep. The days after a bad night are the worst and I feel "flat" like it is hard to muster up an emotion. Sorry if I'm not explaining it very well.

Physically I am getting headaches all the time and seem to be losing a lot of hair, I just need to pull on it and handfuls come out. Also I have become so forgetful which I hate as I am usually very organised.

Can anyone tell me if they have felt this way and what helped?

If it is PND how long did it last for others and are there other treatments apart from medication that I could look into?

Sorry if I don't get back to any responses quickly. Both DC's have a nasty tummy bug so I am up to my eyes in poo and puke today!

TIA

Anyone?

Please?

Hi there fantus

Sorry you are going through such a tough time.

It does indeed from what you describe sound like PND. And yes I believe it can come and go and some days are better than others.

The sleep deprivation can be a big part of it. I never realised it before I had PND myself, but the same areas of the brain control sleep and mood.

When one gets affected, it's rare for the other not to be affected in some way too.

It's good that your HV seems to be on the ball and she's coming back to give you support. That is very good news, as PND can be very isolating, making you withdraw and therefore can be hard for health professionals to "spot" you.

Why are you against medication? Yes, I agree that you should pursue other options first, but a course of anti depressants for say, 6 months could do you wonders. I resisted for too long and ended up in a very bad way - had to be hospitalised in a mother and baby unit for nearly 3 months.

I would hate that to happen to anyone else unnecessarily. You can, and WILL get better. It will take time, but gradually the bad days will become fewer and the good days will become the norm.

If you don't want to take meds, then I can highly recommend exercise - I know, I know, you won't feel like it. But trust me, it is the fastest mood lifter known - and there are research studies to prove it, it's not just "in the mind". I know you may think "how will I fit it in?" But you need to ask for support from your partner or a friend, to get some YOU time, it is not "optional extra" but a necessity if you have PND. Being chained to the kids will drag you down. Just an hour's break can do wonders.

Also ask for a night off at least once a week where DH does the night feeds. A good night's sleep will do you the world of good. If you b/feed, could you express enough for 2 or 2 bottles?

Umm, what else. Getting out to mum and baby groups, trying to have a laugh with someone in the same boat. This will help a lot.

The good thing about PND is that it relates to the post natal period i.e. it's not forever. You WILL get better, but you may need a bit of help to get through it in the short term. Do everything to help yourself but don't rule out meds just yet

Thank you both for your responses.

GetDown - It's not that I am against medication but I have found in the past that whenever prescribed anything it generally makes me feel worse rather than better - I always seem to suffer for the side effects. Obviousley this may not be the case but I would like to look at other options as well. Thanks for sharing your story. I will keep that in mind when speaking to the HV

She has already mentioned joining some local groups and is sending some leaflets out for me.

re exercise - as always it is hard to imagine fitting it in - or finding the energy, but I will have a think about what I could do

itsonlyajob - I hope you do soon start to feel better and thanks for telling me about APNI. I have just had a quick look at the website and a lot of it made sense

Can anyone say how long it was before they began to feel better? I just want to start enjoying my beautiful dc's again

yes the side effects can be grim. I had a bad experience with one AD, but another one worked really well for me. It's a bit of trial and error as they suit people differently.

In terms of how long before I got better, well I was out of hospital when DD was 5 months old, and probably felt quite a bit better a couple of months after that. Then it took a good year to feel my old self again, and even now (3 years on) I have the odd wobble, but nothing more than you'd expect a non-depressed person to have,

Hope you start feeling better soon.

I have had PND twice. The first time lasted over two years BUT I didn't seek treatment or tell anyone how I was truely feeling. As a result I suffered in silence and it wasn't until myself and DH started talking about having another baby that it all came out. I had a bit of a breakdown and had counselling for six months.

This time with DS2 it lasted around seven months. I had CBT and went on a low dose of antidepressants. I also told my DH, close family and friends which was very different to the first time round.

I'm not saying the PND was any better second time round but it lasted considerably less time.

So, get all the help you can and don't ever ever feel as if you're the only one. There are a lot of us on here who have been through and come out the other side.

I know it doesn't feel like it now but you will get through this. I PROMISE.

Sounds like PND - except for the hair loss. Why dont you see your GP and get some blood tests done (importantly - your Vitamin D levels) as well as have a chat about the possibility of PND and the various treatments.

PND and sleep deprivation are a bit "chicken and egg" in my experience. Although I have heard of people who were not sleep deprived getting PND. I think the lack of sleep exacerbates the symptoms though.

It does get better - but you need help - so please get it!

I had severe pnd and anxiety disorder after the birth of my son. All a bit hazy but the worst of it lasted a couple of months. It was absolutely horrendous, but it passed and i recovered and so will you x

i had pnd and severe anxiety too. can totally relate to what you are going through. I didn't want any meds even though docs were insisting. I had counselling, found it really useful. I too had mc befor birth of ds and think this was defo a factor.

anyway practical advice - try taking magnesium and b6 supplements, eat white rice its very calming, avoid spicy food. eat coconuts and have a bath with a cup of milk in it - it is supposed to relak the nerves and soothe mental anxieties. these things work i tell you, because when your emotions seem out of your control you need to focus on practical measures

I had severe postnatal depression with my son. It was hell on earth and the only thing that got me out of it was medication. It lasted about two and half years.

CBT is useful for mild depression/ anxiety, but if you are seriously ill then you will be unable to do work involved with CBT.

With my second baby I had mild anxiety and onine CBT has been great. I did try medication briefly, but it was not helpful.

Thanks again for sharing.

I received a leaflet from the health visitor with a sort of questionnaire inside asking if you felt various symptoms. I ticked around 16 out of 20. I then showed this to DH who I think was struggling to believe / understand that I am anything more than tired.

He has just called today to say that he has now had a word with his boss and will be taking next week off to try and give me a bit of a boost. I will also be able to get to the GP as well and see what they say.

Thanks kalo for the practical advice - I always feel better if I have a specific plan or something to focus on. I will look at giving those a try and in the meantime employ my mothering mantra "this too shall pass"!

Hi fantus I am feeling similar myself, mind if I join you here? I am going to the docs later to talk about it. My DD is 8mo. A lot of what you are saying rings true for me, incl having good days and bad days which I think is why i've only just realised there's something not right. It is so hard to judge when you're sleep deprived, isn't it? Your DH sounds lovely, mine is too and is coming to the docs with me later on.

Hi fantus really glad to hear that your DH has taken you seriously and is being so supportive . Presumably he's coping OK? If so that is a bonus, me and DH are both struggling a bit .

I've not answered your thread before because I've just had a bit of a 'dip' myself (my DD is now 10 months old) but I've been so up and down that I've truly felt OK at times, especially over the summer. The irony is, it's only now I've had some good counselling that I realise how hard it has been for me to hold it together for these ten months, and now I'm facing returning to a stressful job and have some other stresses in my life, am finally going to the GP again and will probably take ADs.

Hope you're OK. You're welcome to come and join us on the insomnia thread (people with sleep deprivation welcome too!) if you want a bit of a support group!

Hi Ginger,

please let me know how you get on. I think that is what has taken me a while to realise there may be more to it as I was convinced myself that a good nights sleep would cure all.

I feel a bit of a cow now. I haven't even asked DH how he is, I have been too wrapped up in my own misery. I know he is tired and worried about me. He works long hours and is up very early so I am doing all the night feeds apart from weekends to try and lessen the impact on him.

I think I would feel a bit out of place on an insomnia thread, arcadia, as I know I could sleep given half a chance!

Work is also on my mind at the minute. My maternity runs out mid December but I know I won't be able to return to my old job. It was part time and I just don't earn enough to pay for childcare for 2 on a part time wage and I don't want to go back full time.

thanks again everyone, I hope you all feel better soon

Hi fantus I'm back and survived the docs without a major meltdown! She was absolutely lovely. I am going to have bloods taken tomorrow to rule out anything else and then I'm booked in to see her again on Fri morn. She asked if I'd be happy to be prescribed ADs and I said yes, anything to feel better. I was really glad DH went with me because I did get quite teary which I expected, but it was fine.

Don't feel like a cow, I think part of it is a loss of normal perspective, and when you feel bad you really can't function in the normal way. Is your DH doing the night feeds at wkends? If so, do you sleep through it all or wake anyway?

The doc said that at 8mo my DD doesn't really need a night feed and it might be time to get tough with her due to the negative effects the broken sleep. So tonight when she wakes, DH is going to go in and give her water and try to settle her.

It's interesting what you say about work, I am starting back doing my KIT days 1 day a wk in Nov, and then going back 4 days a wk starting Jan but one of those days to be from home. I am ok about leaving DD - she's started settling in with CM already - but anxious about how i am going to manage with work given my lack of memory at the moment. I know I'm going back to the same company but not quite sure what role they are going to put me in, having lunch with them tomorrow so might find out more.

From what you say it sounds like you'll be job hunting? Could you go back to your old PT job to start with, get your hand back in and get yourself feeling a bit better, before you have to start looking elsewhere?

How is the tummy bug going btw? I feel your pain, it doesn't help having to be a social pariah whilst DCs are poorly either, does it?

I don't think I am feeling as bad as you sound, but do you fancy 'buddying up' for want of a better term? Would be nice to have a friend through all this who is going through the same thing so that we can support each other.

Hi Ginger,
I'm glad the docs went well - it sounds like you have someone who will offer you the support you need alongside your DH. My hv is visiting tomorrow so I will see what she has to say or suggest although I am pretty sure she will say go see my GP which I will do.

I have had a bit of a better day today although this morning I felt very anxious but could not find a reason for it. Butterflies in the tummy, that sort of thing, as if I was about to sit my driving test again! It faded by the afternoon, not sure if this is another symptom or me starting with the dreaded tummy bug! The DC's have fully recovered now, thanks.

Re work, I have started to train to be a childminder as it is something I can do from home and still be around with my own two. I am enjoying the training, it's my social life at the minute! I'm also studying although I have put that on hold until early next year thankfully. I am finding that writing everything down in triplicate is helping with the memory loss!

DH does help at weekends although rather than do night feeds because yes I am up anyway, he will get up in the morning and let me have a lie in which I prefer. He will also sometimes go out for a few hours to let me put my feet up - I really am lucky - must make a point of letting him know more.

Please let me know how you get on re feeds. DD wakes usually once a night for a feed and I do feel she is hungry because she has such a small appetite in the day but I am starting to cut down how much she has so hopefully she is hungrier at the right times.

And please do keep posting - I would love to hear how you are doing and hopefully we can support each other. And anyone else who may be reading

Hi Fantus

The GP said that ADs are often prescribed for anxiety, so if you do go on them it will prob get rid of that horrid feeling - I know exactly what you mean. Hope you get on well with HV today - make an appt to see the GP, you will feel better just having got the ball rolling IYSWIM. Let me know how it goes.

Nights have gone ok actually, she woke once the first night and cried for about 25 mins, then last night she woke at 5.30, 5.45 and 6 but settled really easily each time - DH has been going in to her so she doesn't get excited by the sight of my norks! We are pleased with her progress and are sticking with it. I think it proves that she doesn't need a feed, as otherwise she'd either not go back off or wake again v early - and both mornings she's woken again at 7 as normal.

I'm going into hosp briefly this arvo as had an abnormal smear - fingers crossed it'll be nothing but if they find any abnormalities they do something nasty with an electrified wire loop - DH is coming with me in case. Wish me luck!

Hope things went well at the hospital for you yesterday.

The meeting with the HV was ok. Gave me some things to think about and also some ideas to try which is what I prefer.

She has recommended some "me" time where I can get away for a few hours without the DC's so I am going to start swimming again after half term. Also getting out for a walk every day (other than the school run) for some fresh air and a bit of exercise. I have also made plans to meet up with a couple of friends I haven't seen in a while just for a coffee and a chat. Baby steps but I do feel more positive for having done something. I will also see my GP next week.

I'm glad the night time situation seems to be getting better for you. I am still having a bit of a mare. DD was up from 3am till 5am the other night. Last night was a bit better, up at 1.30am and 5am but only for 20 minutes or so. I am putting it down to teething!

Hi ladies - I thought I'd just jump in here for a minute. I am suffering from PND too - it started somewhere between when my DD was 5 - 7 months and I wasn't diagnosed till 10 months - I didn't realised anything was really wrong - just thought I was a crap mum and couldn't cope.

I actually got a lot better after 2 weeks on ADs but then 6 weeks later had an insane crash and was nearly hospitalised. I mention that only to let you know that if you start to feel crap to mention it to your Dr or HV.

I'm now part of a "reproductive mental health" out-patient program and am on 2 ADs. I'm also on the wait list for talk therapy.

I have to admit I'm still in the struggling phase but I hope you both get some help and feel better soon!

Thanks babybump - that's a good reminder. I do have days where I start to feel like maybe I am imagining it all and everything is ok only to feel rotten again soon after.

Good luck with recovery x

sorry, that should be good luck with your recovery

Thanks for sharing your experience Babybump, I am sorry you were undiagnosed for so long that must have been a very tough time. My BF had quite bad PND and could hardly sleep or eat by the time she asked for help, so through her experience I have caught myself early IYSWIM, which I am grateful for. I will def keep a track on things and ask my DH to do the same - sometimes it's hard to see how you are clearly. I hope you feel much better soon.

Fantus - sorry you had a shitty couple of nights, I really think sleep is the key to all of this for me, and maybe it's the same for you. Teething is a bastard, I know we had 3 consecutive nights of hell when DD popped her two little teeth. Calpol and ashton and parsons did help a bit.

Our nights are ok, she woke at 1.30 and 2 this morn (strangely early and why again half an hour later??) but settled quickly each time. Then slept til 6.40, I got her up and fed her, then she was grizzling and rubbing her eyes so I put her back to bed and she slept from about 7.10 til 8.30 - bonus lie in for me, much needed!

The ideas your HV gave you sound good, do you have many friends with babies you can meet up with? Or go to local baby groups?

So, went back to docs this morn (oh hosp was fine yesterday, thanks for asking fantus) - my iron was a bit low - healthy range is 15-200 and mine was 15, so the very bottom of the healthy range which doc said could be considered as being too low for a woman of my age - should be around 35. So I'm on iron tablets now, hopefully this will help a bit with energy levels and immunity (sick of being sick, tired of being tired - i think that's a song?).

She has also put me on 20mg of Citalopram. I am to take half a tablet for 4 days and then go up to the full dose. Have been warned of poss side effects of nausea etc etc, and understand they won't 'kick in' for two weeks. BF said that 2 wks after she went on it, she woke up and felt 'on a high' and 'everything looked brighter' - she then realised she actually felt normal again. I would love to feel normal again and I know my symptoms are not that bad.

I am starting yoga on wednesday, an hour and a half of me time and exercise, both of which I hope will help me.

Hey Fantus how's things? Just thought I'd check in as you've not posted for a few days and I know when I had a few days 'away' it was because I was feeling awful. Hope you are ok. Post away if you need to vent or moan, or alternatively to report your excellent progress if you are in fact marching around the countryside inhaling fresh air with a big grin on your face!

Sorry for not replying sooner, busy weekend, no free time on the pc etc.

I'm glad the hospital went ok. When do you get your results?

I suppose it is too early to say how the AD's are going, it will take a while to kick in I imagine as it did with your friend. Good luck with the iron tablets. I'm not able to take them due to the side effects but when I had a really low iron count towards the end of my pregnancy I started taking Spatone supplements twice a day. You can buy them at Boots - I found these really helpful and they didn't make me sick like the tablets do.

I know what you mean about feeling normal. I think that is part of what I am finding so frustrating - why don't I feel normal? I guess I am struggling with the whole mental health illness side of it. I'm not used to feeling out of my depth. Not explaining it very well, sorry.

Sleep still an issue. Last night she was awake for over an hour again but I didn't stay with her the whole time. She drank around 5oz but was still wide awake so I left her in her cot while I went and lay down again. She jabbered away to her curtains and the ceiling for 20 minutes then when I could hear she was getting a bit upset I went back in and managed to settle her quite quickly. It wasn't great but better than sitting with her for the whole hour.

Can I ask how you have bonded with DD? I think I struggled a bit in the beginning. I don't like admitting it but it took a few weeks before I realised how much I actually loved her. Even now on my worst days even tho' I know I love her completely I struggle to "feel" it if that makes sense. And that makes me even more sad because she deserves better than that. Sorry, I am rambling now but just felt I needed to get that off my chest. I haven't admitted that to anyone.

I hope you enjoy yoga on Wednesday. Sounds like a good way to relax and unwind