PND, how long will I feel like this, Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

[fantus]

Sorry if this gets long and confused but I just need to put it down somewhere.

I have a 4 year old and 6 month old. Over the past few weeks my mood has got lower and lower to the point where I feel tearful every day and can't see an end to feeling this way. I spoke to my health visitor yesterday and she is coming to see me next week as she thinks I have PND.

I know it's very personal but can anyone share any experiences or let me know if any of this sounds normal?

I just feel so ungrateful for what I have. We tried for 2 years to have our 6 month old with 2 mmc and I know I should be so happy but some days I just wake up dreading facing another day. But other days I don't feel so bad. Does PND come and go like this? Also could it be sleep deprivation? DD is up every night for at least an hour. Sometimes I think everything would be so much better if I could just get a good nights sleep. The days after a bad night are the worst and I feel "flat" like it is hard to muster up an emotion. Sorry if I'm not explaining it very well.

Physically I am getting headaches all the time and seem to be losing a lot of hair, I just need to pull on it and handfuls come out. Also I have become so forgetful which I hate as I am usually very organised.

Can anyone tell me if they have felt this way and what helped?

If it is PND how long did it last for others and are there other treatments apart from medication that I could look into?

Sorry if I don't get back to any responses quickly. Both DC's have a nasty tummy bug so I am up to my eyes in poo and puke today!

TIA

Oh bless you, I feel so :( for you. You are so not alone, lots of women don't bond with their babies straight away even without PND being a factor, in fact there is a thread on here - will try to find it for you. I must admit I was v lucky and loved DD immediately, but what you say about struggling to 'feel' it on a bad day rings true. I think that is all part and parcel of it, the GP said the same to me - AD's will apparently help me to feel things properly again.

i think I know what you are trying to say re feeling normal and mental health - it was not what you expected when you got pg, was it? No, me neither. I don't see myself as someone prone to depression, but OTOH I have never before been subjected to 8 solid months of sleep deprivation and illness, either. My BF struggled to accept that she had a problem, so refused to get any help until she was virtually unable to eat - I am glad neither of us has got to that stage.

Tablets going ok so far, today was last day of half dose and side effects have been ok, have felt vague background nausea and a feeling of tension in chest, and unable to sleep - but since both those latter ones are what i was suffering from anyway, might be nowt to do with tablets! Onto full dose tomorrow, ten days to go til they kick in. Overall though I have been feeling better - I think partly because I have taken some action, and partly because I've always had bad days and good days in any case. Today for example, I felt like a fraud as i swallowed my half tablet, as didn't feel 'depressed' at all - but then have also got very used to background feeling of anxiety. Not good when that feels 'normal'.

Hosp results in 4 wks but the nurse seemed v relaxed it was nothing problematic, so that's good.

What kind of week do you have this week? It's half term here, is it with you too?

Thread re not bonding immediately

HTH x

Thanks Ginger, I have had a look at the thread and found it very reassuring. I find that I am comparing a lot to when I had DS and thinking I know I didn't feel like this then so why do I now. I just want to be the mum she deserves. Also never having had any experience of depression it has been hard to admit there is a problem. But thanks for your post, it has just reminded me to call the GP's for an appt. It's not till Thursday but it is another step forward hopefully.

Yes it is half term here too and so far so good. DH is off which is really nice and we have a few things planned for the week both with the DC's and a night out on our own on Wednesday, something we haven't done for months. I also met up with a friend earlier today and am meeting another for lunch next week. Some times I feel like just hiding in a corner rather than getting ready and going out but I am making the effort and do think I am feeling better for it. And yes we went tramping round the fields this morning kicking up leaves and playing chase (me and DS, not DH ) which was good fun. I actually had some laugh out loud moments which have been few and far between just lately I am sorry to say.
I am also going to pick up some magnesium and B6 as suggested earlier in the thread.

Has your GP said how long you might expect to be on the AD's?

By the way, thanks for reading and posting, it helps to know there is someone out there reading these random thoughts!

Hi there- hope you don't mind me popping in, sounds so similar to when I had my second, yes think you are right about the lack of sleep being key, it's amazing how it can change your mood, then (I found) it just much harder to get out when knackered! (Swimming and packing up the little ones for a walk in the park really helped) it's tricky though, especially when the weather's getting colder. Anyway sorry not much help, my second child is now nearly two and things are getting better. I hear having a second is as much a change as the first to a mum, good book i found helpful was "Three shoes, one sock and no hairbrush' Best wishes, x x

Hi LittleBlossom, it's nice to hear from you. I think I did have unrealistic expectations for my DD being my second as my DS was pretty much a text book baby, sleeping through at 3 months etc. and even tho' I know no 2 babies are the same I wrongly assummed DD would too!

It has been a really big adjustment for all of us. She was so longed for and wanted that I thought it would be all sunshine and rainbows and the reality of it has hit me quite hard. But I am looking at her now and she is so lovely and adorable and I am filling up just thinking how much I love. God I feel as changeable as the weather, I just want to hold onto this feeling and not 'go under' again.

I'm glad to hear things are getting better for you. I will have a look at the book you have recommended too, thanks

Fantus you sound like such a lovely mum, you are doing really well and things will get better. I know just what you mean about wanting to be the mum she deserves, and I bet you are doing better than you think.

Ok, you just made me cry - in a good way.

You're lovely too you know

Oh bless you, unmumsnetty (((hugs)))

Hi Fantus

I'm so sorry your suffering with this. I too have PND, with a 4 year old and a 4 month old.

My PND was picked up when DD was about 10 weeks old. I hadn't realised this was what was causing me to feel so crap. My symptoms were/are as follows:

• dreadful irritability with DH especially, and DS (the 4 year old)
• inability to concentrate, make decisions or remember basic stuff
• loss of appetite (still struggling with this one)
• feeling like I was kind of forcing myself to have feelings for DD, rather than them being part of me (this symptom has now gone, I know for sure I love her to bits)
• being scared to be left alone with the DCs (see below) or take them out

The worst symptom of all for me, and the one that prompted me to seek help, is complete emotional meltdowns that happen on a fairly regular basis, usually after an argument with DH over some petty thing. I literally end up screaming the place down and break down in floods of violent tears. There have been occasions where I've worried I could hurt one of the DCs because I haven't felt in control of my actions. Truly terrifying, but thankfully happening a little less often now.

I can relate to you feeling you had unrealistic expectations of your new baby. I think this was similar for me. I had an easy pregnancy and birth this time, so different from the hellish time I had with DS, and I expected myself to just bounce back. I did, for a while, but I was just setting myself up for a big fall. I crashed and burned basically. Furthermore, DD has acid reflux and until very recently did not sleep in the day - at all. I am b/f her and had dreadful problems with that as well. I all adds up.

In hindsight, I think I have had PND to some degree ever since having DS, but I didn't recognise it until now.

As for treatment, I did make initial enquiries about ad's, mostly because I was so scared of these outbursts I described above. But after the GP related all the potential side effects that could happen in the first few weeks I decided that I couldn't take the risk of feeling worse. So I've been muddling through on my own.

What has helped me is finding out as much as I can about PND, recognising my symptoms and starting to recognise the signs of a bad day, and educating DH. My HV has been really good and has organised for a family support worker to come for one afternoon a week to look after DS and take the pressure off a little. I definitely think I'm over the worst now, but if it recurs I will reconsider the ad's.

Sorry for mammoth post!

I should add that I have DH at home as he's a SAHD. This has been mostly a blessing but, I think, has also contributed in a way because I've felt guilty for struggling. If DH wasn't at home I think I probably would have gone onto anti depressants, as there is no family nearby and I would not be able to guarantee being OK with the DCs on my own.

Sorry for multiple posts, just remembered one important symptom that sounds stupid but took over my life for a good while: a complete obsession with the housework and feeling like a complete failure that I couldn't do absolutely everything while b/f and looking after a very demanding baby.

thanks for taking the time to post gaelicsheep. Your symptoms sound very similar to my own.

This thread is really helping me to recognise my "triggers" if that is the right word?

I also find myself getting anxious and irritable if the house is a mess or I've been particularly forgetful. And obviously after a night of no sleep.

Can I ask how you educated your DH? I know mine wants to help but I don't think he actually 'gets' it. He is still convinced a good nights sleep will fix it all. (of course it wouldn't hurt!)

Ginger, I hope your ok, enjoy your yoga today

Just popping in to say hello, I'm fine but unbelievably have had a D&V bug - however, on the plus side it didn't cause an emotional meltdown, I wasn't sick til after DH got home on Mon, and he then took DD to CM on Tues morn leaving me in bed - I was far far better by the time she got home so that was great. Main annoying thing though is that I was meant to be having a spa day with friends yesterday! It was my last day of childcare before work starts next Tues. Grrrr.

Welcome Gaelic, glad to have you on board. Your comment of feeling like a failure struck a chord with me, a friend told me off the other day for expecting too much of myself and being too much of a perfectionist - I don't see myself as a perfectionist but thought about what she said and I do beat myself up for really fairly inconsequential things - eg not packing exactly the right stuff in DD's nappy bag before going out. Never does any harm and really not an issue but I give myself a really hard time about it. Stupid.

I am on day 6 of ADs, so far so good, no undue side effects, am not sleeping but then I wasn't before, so no idea how much of that is to do with the pills. I felt nauseous for the first 3 days but who knows whether that could actually have been to do with the bug?!

TBH since Sat, despite being ill, I have actually been feeling ok, so still feel a bit of a fraud now for taking the tablets. But I have to keep reminding myself of how bad I've been on my bad days IYSWIM. And am really hoping that in a week's time they will kick in and my anxiety and sleeplessness will stop - that will make life soooo much better.

Take care x

Yesterday and today have not been good and i have been using Cbeebies instead of doing stuff with DD :(

Hi I have been diagnosed with pnd and have been prescribed Prozac which I am afraid of taking because I have heard so many bad stories. I have a four month old ds , I thought I was ready for a baby r approaching being ready the same night I said as much to dh (then dp) I got pregnant dp was over the
moon but I felt like a bomb had been dropped
on me eventually I came to terms with having a baby and couldn't wait for him to be born , when he was handed to me I felt
not nothing but not the huge rush of love i was expecting then for the next two weeks we had nothing but visitors and trips to the in laws because e eryone wanted to see the baby , the whole time I felt I could not be bothered with ds or anyone and I did not feel I had connected with my ds , I have slowly fallen in love with ds but I still don't feel all the way there and it's making me feel awful ,most days I don't want to get dressed go out or see anyone I end up watching sky all day and playing with ds then feel bad because no housework has been done I haven't done any writing or excercise, another thing is anxiety I have I worry my dh is going to die I know I it's irrational but it really gets me In It's grip I'm sorry this is all a bit rambling I haven't told
anyone else how I feel and could really use some advice

Oh no, I am so glad you've come along jacksmomma we are trying to support each other here. You know what sticks out for me in your post is that despite how crap you feel, you still play with DS (Jack I assume?!) - that is fab, you are doing better than I did today, I feel like I barely related to DD. Sod the housework, your DS is the most important thing.

Have you not started taking the Prozac then? Why were you prescribed that as opposed to something else? If you are not taking it, could you ring the docs in the morning and book an urgent appt to discuss this further? It really sounds like you need a hand up out of this hole.

BIG (((hugs))) (because it's that kind of thread, so there!)

Thanks so much for the support it means a lot , I hate feeling like this , at the minute I find I have nothing to say to people I just can't communicate as well
as before (normally I am a total chatterbox) and find myself looking for excuses not to meet people. I told the doc a few things no motivation feeling down etc and the fact I went through some very bad things in my childhood and teens which I don't think I have dealt
with yet , he instantly prescribed
m flouxtine and counselling ,I do feel
I need something like this I just don't feel I could handle
bad side effects on top of the way I'm feeling at the moment . Gingercursed do you have much time to yourself? I had a girly afternoon the first one without ds and all we did was sit in costa but I felt better for being able to be one of the girls and free to roam the shops without getting dirty looks from other people because of my pushchair just like before, I felt much better when I got home just for having some fre time to myself , I hope you come
through this and it's lovely you are able to be so supportive to others whilst going through a hard time yourself

I know exactly what you mean, I have failed to go out and meet friends so many times lately. I hardly recognise myself. On a good day I am great at putting on a facade and saying the right thing, but I don't really feel it IYSWIM.

Amazingly a friend I was meant to see today has just sent me a lovely lovely email saying she is actually on ADs too and if i don't come to see her tomorrow, she will come to see me - even if I am still in my pyjamas! She is so lovely.

We are here to support each other, it is great having someone to offload to who is going through the same thing, as I personally feel like I don't want to burden people with it in RL - my lovely Mum keeps trying to talk to me about things and essentially reinforcing how bad i feel - you know, "you've been through a really hard time" "you've had that horrible bug, your health is really bad" etc etc - she means well but it really doesn't help when all I am trying to do is get through the day and wait til the magic 2 weeks is up and the ADs kick in. So I am glad to be able to come here and very glad if I can support others at the same time.

Fantus - sorry to hear you're suffering the same as me. In terms of educating my DH, what really helped is that he himself has depression. So whilst that makes us a right pair at the moment - always rubbing each other up the wrong way - he does at least understand how I feel. And I now understand a lot better how he's been feeling all these years. If it wasn't for his history, I don't know if he would have found it any easier to understand than your DH. Essentially, if you haven't been there it is almost impossible to understand that you can't just snap out of it. Compare my mum, who's helpful comments include "oh, but be thankful you're not a single mum and you've even got Mr Gaelic at home too!".

The part that DH has never suffered is the fear of going out or being left alone. I got him to understand that simply by talking to him, ad nauseum he'd probably say. He does get it now, and it's actually helped our relationship because he realises that all these years (as I said I think I've had PND for some time) I've not been clingy and possessive, but actually ill.

On the up side, I am feeling a lot better these days. I've really made an effort to get out to local groups, get to know people and build up a bit better social network. It was very hard at first as I'm not really that kind of person, but now I'm enjoying it. Getting a little child free time is very important as well. I've had two afternoons off in 4 months, which might not sound much but they did me the world of good. I bought new clothes and feel much better about myself which helps also.

And sleep! Can your DH take some time off work to be around so that you can sleep during the day, even for the odd hour here and there?

Can I dip my toe in the water, I think I have PND and anxiety as well. I am relating to a lot of what everyone is saying.

DS is 6 months old and I have a 6yo, 5yo and 2yo as well. My DH works long hours but is great when he is here and we have no family help or support. DS is a rubbish sleeper waking at least 4 times in the night on a good night.

I just wake in the morning and don't want to get out of bed, I don't want to go outside, I think something bad is going to happen to the DCs, I hate driving with them in the car, I think everyone is looking at me and talking about me behind my back as the woman with 4 kids who cannot cope, I am highly irritable and somedays cannot wait to drop off DD1 and 2 at school to get rid of them as they are driving me mad, then I feel all guilty for being a rubbish Mum, I just feel pulled in all directions. I don't have any problems bonding with DS whom I adore but everything else is so so hard right now

Oh sweetkitty, poor you! "just feel pulled in all directions" - that describes it for me exactly.

Hello everyone - been having a couple of down days myself here but trying to keep my head above water.

It's good to hear from you jacksmomma and sweetkitty although I'm sorry it has to be on a PND thread IYSWIM. Please keep posting and letting us know how you are doing.

jacksmomma - how long have you been on the meds? Are you starting to feel any effects yet? Also have you started the counselling - how is that going? I never felt that huge surge of love either when I had my DS but like you slowly fell in love with him as time went on. He is 4 now and it takes my breath away sometimes how much I love him now. You will get there I'm sure - you sound like you are doing great at a difficult time and you are getting the help you need

sweetkitty - have you spoken to your HV or GP about how you are feeling. Sometimes just making that first step can help you feel more positive about things. And I take my hat off to you with 4 DC's. I struggle daily with just 2. I am sure you are doing an amazing job.

Ginger - I'm sorry you are feeling low too. Did you go to yoga? How was that? Your friend sounds lovely by the way and I hope you had a nice time with her. I've found that this seems to be one of those hidden subjects. It's not until you suffer yourself that you realize so many others around you have been in the same boat. Keeping my fingers crossed for some better days for you

I can totally relate to not wanting to go out and meet with anyone. I have a night out arranged tomorrow with work and I have been trying to come up with an excuse all week to not go. I just feel totally out of the loop having been off for 7 months and that I will struggle to string two words together. I imagine everyone else being the life and soul of the party while i'm the wall flower wishing I could be home catching up on that elusive sleep!

gaelic - DH has taken this week off which has been a great help.
I'm glad you are starting to feel better. I took DD to be weighed yesterday and got some info on some local play groups. I'm going to give them a try next week. And last night DD slept till 5.30am. So ok I have been up since then but on the plus side this is the longest she has slept in months. Every cloud and all that (see, trying to see the positives )

Morning everyone and welcome sweetkitty - well if we've only learnt one thing from this thread, it's that we're not alone! :)

Gaelic - thanks for your positive post, I am glad you are feeling better, and without meds! I must admit I was just desperate to feel better asap and was willing to risk side effects - which in the end haven't actually been too bad.

Jacksmomma - is flouxtine the same as Prozac then? Or are you on F now with a prescription of P that you've not started? Sorry I couldn't quite follow and don't know anything about meds really.

Sweetkitty - I'm so glad you've come along here, have you spoken to anyone in RL about how you are feeling? I really second what Fantus said about speaking to your GP or HV.

Fantus - never got to yoga, but a friend is coming next wk and she will kick my butt out the door :) am going to see the other friend i mentioned this morn, have woken up having had a better night (woke at 1 and 2.30 IIRC) and feel much brighter than yesterday. That's great that your DD slept til 5.30, hope it's a sign of good things to come.

Right I'm off to have a shower while DD naps (she was up at 6!) and brave ringing my mum back - she asked me to call her back last night but I didn't really want to after last nights 'pep talk'!!!

fantus - no haven't spoken to anyone yet, my HV is useless, I filled in the PND Edinburgh score thing and it came out quite high (cannot remember exact score), HV said she would come back out in a month to reassess me so out she came and she went through the form like I was 5, she said that of course I was stressed, I am a Mum of 4, no help and have am planning an extension so I wasn't stressed for no reason I have a reason!!?? She's moved to New Zealand now though so don't know who I have now.

The worst thing is the constant anxiety and the way I am with the DC especially the other 2, they drive me up the wall, probably just doing what kids do but I get so ratty and grumpy with them.

Oh Fluoxetine is the generic name for Prozac it's the same thing, have been on it before, I was on citalopram previous to getting pregnant with DS, I have a history of depression.

Sweetkitty do you want to ssee your GP about it? Would you go back on meds again? Sounds like your HVs emigration is our gain, NZs bad luck! Coming back in a month when you were clearly suffering is outrageous. I would think better to go straight to a GP who can actually DO something for you. Sorry you are feeling so low. :(