No joy in life

[DeepDeepDown]

I wake up tired and depressed, I go to bed tired and depressed.

Apart from my son, I have absolutely nothing to look forward to in my life.

I have no friends - never really have. Having suffered with anxiety for as long as I can remember, I don't seem to have the ability to make friends, and, more unsettling, I don't seem to want to.

My DP is confident, outgoing and has many friends. I find myself finding excuses not to accept dinner/meet-ups as I feel and look like crap and I have nothing of interest to add.

Tonight, we were invited out to a "posh" restaurant by one of DP's business colleagues (unmet by DS and I). I used my son as an excuse not to attend - it being too late. I can't do posh. I wouldn't even know where to begin...

I feel awful. I feel like a bad mother, a bad partner and a bad person.

I don't know how to make myself feel better.

I'm sorry to bore, I just needed to get it out. I have no-one to talk to. My DS and I moved country to be with DP and I miss home/my family/my old (safe) life terribly. I (kinda) knew where I was, at least.

I don't know how to crawl out of this state.

What do you exactly discuss in bed deepdeepdown when you 'let off a little'?

hi DeepDeepDown,

I've been abroad almost 6 years. It doesn't matter whether your living in the most idyllic place on earth, you will still go through the same processes of culture shock. I live in a sub-tropical island full of palm trees and beaches. In fact it can be worse if you live somewhere idyllic because the disconnect between how you're supposed to feel and the reality of how you do feel is wider.

Have you read about the four stages of culture shock that everyone goes through:

1. Idealization: believing the new region is wonderful and perfect and idyllic

2. Disillusionment: not liking the people, feeling that the local people are abrupt or rude, missing food from home, missing casual chit-chat due to language barrier

3. Depression (you right now), feelings of helplessness, no joy in life .

4. Acceptance: admitting that the new place is not "special" or "dreadful" but that it has its good and bad points just like anywhere else, and realising that life the new country is just as normal/dull/interesting as it would have been at home

Apparently, some people can stay stuck in one of the first three phases. I like to believe I've reached the last phase, but by the time you reach that you realise you might as well not have moved abroad in the first place!!

gladis, we don't get too deep. I don't want to crumble infront of him. Basically, just that I'm low and sad and I don't know what to do to improve my mood.

He knows I went to the GP monday and that she's prescribed me something - I didn't tell him what and he's not delved any deeper. Maybe he hates to admit to himself that his once-perfect girlfriend is on anti-depressants.

I took my first Paroxetine tablet last night - after much reluctance. I'm still unsure whether to continue taking them - read many horror stories about withdrawal from this drug.

Yes, Sakura. I feel so pathetic and undeserving to live in such a great place and not enjoy/make the most of it. One of the best places to live in the world and I am depressed. God, I need a kick.

Not seen the culture-shock stages before. I can only hope for the "acceptance" stage. My biggest fear is that we'll end up returning (as this move's made me so bad) and I'll have the guilt on my back for the rest of forever.

It's so hard to look forward right now. I live (if you could call it that) day to day.

big hug deepdeepdown.

I hate this.

I've been feeling a little nauseous this evening - didn't eat much - and told DP it was probably due to the drug. His adamant response was that the medicine (not that he even knows what it is) is supposed to make me feel better.

I was hoping to talk with him about my worries with it, but he doesn't seem bothered and hasn't enquired about the drug I was prescribed.

I feel like such a failure having to resort to drugs in an attempt to ease this crippling sadness and terrified of the possible side effects. All I want is a hug and a little understanding. I am so alone.

DP sees that I'm down and (often) just takes himself away. DS and I are practicing DS's spellings and he's asleep on the bed. I'm afraid I'm beginning to resent him (and his all-encompassing work). He's not giving me the support I need.

What the hell am I going to do?

EArlier this year, in a heartfelt moment I told dh that I had had eating disorder problems for years, and that it was often how I subconciously dealt with stress, and I had to tell him to get it out in the open etc etc. When I cried he put an arm around me, but really in many respects it went in one ear and out the other. You could see he thought it was sort of like an 'excuse' for not being able to loose the baby weight!!!! Not much help when I was in the middle of a crisis and I realised I was on my own a bit in terms of sorting it out, so came straight onto mumsnet. So, I understand what you mean.

I think men sometimes (vast generalisation) can cope with things better when they understand them and can put a name on it (not sure I'm explaining myself very well). Could you find an article that describes this culture shock that Sakura talks about, and print it off and give it to him, just to show you are not the only person in the universe struggling in a new culture. Actually, wikipedia has a very clear simplistic explanation of it all. Could you just email him the link and let him absorb it slowly?

Just ideas. I don't know him, and only you can get a feeling for what might help.

You're probably right, gladis. Or, maybe he just doesn't know how to respond to my misery. Maybe he thinks keeping out of the way's best all round.

I feel like I'm draining him. That I'm dragging him down with me.

I've stopped taking the Paroxetine. Tuesday night was the first and last time. I spent much of yesterday looking it up online and am pretty horrified about the number of negative experiences from such a widely prescribed "medicine".

After DS went to bed, I snuggled up to (sleeping) DP. He awoke and I told him about my concerns with the drug. He said he's surprised the prescription was the first line of attack and that drugs never work. I "need to have a drink and walk up a mountain". I so wanted to believe that - it makes reasonable sense, only I know it's a little more complexed than that.

I'll continue with the 2/3 weekly swims and try to look forward to starting a language course in the new year - and, of course, returning to England for Christmas. Also, moving house next weekend. So, much to cope with over the next few weeks. I hope I make it through.

Thank you for that hug, gladis. I have to say, I truly felt it.

The first step is always to get it 'off your chest' by coming online and starting to try and exert just a teency bit of control over it, you are making a step in the right direction. Even if you feel helpless and consumed, I can sense your strength within. You are doing so well, even in the past week.

Poke your tongue out at all those perfectly 'coiffed' and quite possibly perfectly bored women you see. Do they look ecstatically happy - quite possibly not.

There was an interesting program I only caught a tiny bit off last week called 'Real Desperate Housewives'. One woman, a top flight advertising executive said that when she had her breakdown, she realised she wasn't being herself, just being what she thought everyone wanted her to be. She said she had never enjoyed life so much than when she stopped caring so much about what other people thought of her. There is some great truth in that.

sorry I should have said' the first step is to get it off your chest, which you have done so by coming on to mumsnet....and the second is to try and exert some control over it, which you are starting to do'.

I appreciate your words, gladis and thank you for them.

Had another weepy session with DP this morning. We're supposed to be moving friday morning. There is much to sort out: phone calls, letters, etc, etc. I am feeling very anxious and overwhelmed with it all.

DP says how I'm feeling's normal. He thinks it's all to do with my homesickness. I told him he and DS deserve better. He told me I'm "perfect".

I confessed that maybe I need the pills to get through. He's not convinced.

We were all invited by DP's friend to a get-together today. Lots of gorgeous, successful women (including one of his exs) will be there. Of course, I feel like crap and couldn't face it. DP was happy to cancel, but I'd have felt worse if he and DS had missed out, so I insisted they go without me. I hate that it's come to this. They're there now and I'm thinking about the fun they're having with "normal" people :(...

What is successful? Or do you mean 'conforming'? Or composed? Happiness is the only thing that really matters, and the problem is you don't feel happy, your self esteem is low and you feel intimated.

It's not surprising you should feel this way. I used to cancel about every second outing, on some pretext when I had self esteem issues. When I just didn't feel strong enough to keep up the 'act' that all was well and dandy. I felt I wasn't funny, wasn't interesting, that nobody would want to listen to me, and that some of them would see through me and realise I was dull.

However, ironically, at the same time, I was aware that the 'clutches' of depression, those tentacles that wrapped around me stopping me from being myself and being natural.....so what people were seeing, actually wasn't the 'real' me. These tentacles that crushed me, meant I couldn't breathe sometimes and had mini anxiety crises when people asked me questions, that when some funny person said something witty, how inadequate I felt by comparison, the pressure on my head at times to deal with the 1,000 thought rushing through my mind about how to deal with this social situation.

Does any of that sound familiar? I loved it when I found my counsellor. I remember the first session, when I started to open up, looking out the window and looking at some Georgian arcitechture and thinking how clever the person was who designed that....then I thought how clever so many people were....then I though how I felt so useless by comparison. That was the problem with depression, every thought I had, eventually came back full circle to the conclusion that I was useless. But week by week we made steps forward and at the last session, I looked out at the same building, and instead saw the beauty of it and it inspired me to create something beautiful myself.

When you are feeling better, you will look at these women, and see the one who is secretly sad because her husband is having an affair, the one who loves swimming, like you, and who you can happily talk to, the two socialites who look lovely but are dead boring etc etc. But when you look now, all you see is that they 'appear' together, then you think 'I don't feel together', then you think 'I am so useless'. The thinking spiral of someone suffering from self esteem issues. Once you start to feel better you may look at them and think 'they 'appear' so together - bet they aren't really, snigger, snigger'!!!

Do you see what I mean?

And the self esteem problem that is not such a big deal when you are surrounded by so many old friends and close family, is so exaggerated when you are tossed into a completely new environment and different culture on top of it.

It doesn't matter that you cannot face going today. It's all about tiny steps in the right direction, sometimes you will take two steps forward for every one backward, and I do highly recommend finding someone to talk to, as it's very hard when all your thoughts just bounce around inside your own head with no way out, so to speak.

gladis, all that you say resonates with me.

I hate social situations as I fade into the background and watch everyone else as they mingle - seemingly quite happily and with ease. I concerned only of myself in the sense that I'm paranoid about what people must think of me. When I have to talk to someone, I do, but my mind and heart's racing and I worry that I'm saying the right things or if I'm coming across as strange or that they're talking to me out of necessity or politeness.

I hate being so in-my-head. I feel selfish and ridiculous.

The boys returned the Sunday and said they had a nice time. Didn't stop me feeling so rubbish, though. Those "successful" women are beautiful, strong, popular, have good careers/ambition, lead exciting lives and look so happy... Who wouldn't be with those attributes? I often wonder why DP isn't with someone like that. At least they'd be full of life.

I hope to be at the point, one day, to look at these women and not be envious/feel like crap.

I informed my GP that I'd not be continuing with the Paroxetine. She replied saying it's normal to experience nausea for a little while, but any other side-effects are not so dramatic. Now I don't know whether to start taking the pills. DP said there'll be bad reviews/experiences of Paracetamol if I look. A mixed message, I feel.

Moving the weekend - high stress - and traveling back to England for Christmas next week - can't wait! Will see how I'm feeling once New Year comes.

Thank you, gladis, for being there for me. For taking the time. Your words are invaluable.

I really feel for you. I've just started taking Sertraline. Is it just Paroxetine you are worried about or all anti-depressants? Maybe it's worth asking your doctor for a different one?

I understand your worries about ADs, I was the same and had to totally break down before I could see that I needed some help.

There does seem to be a stigma about mental health issues. There's no shame in taking ADs - if you had diabetes you'd need insulin, you have depression and medication can help.

I empathise so much with your situation. It was my life for so many years.

Do try to keep talking, or even writing can help. Talking and crying are therapeutic. Avoidance and pretending all is well, are counter-productive. It is like opening a can of worms, and they are squiggle around making a nuisance of themselves, but you can't set them free (and be worm free) unless you open the can.

I just picked my daughter up from the stunning house of a successful couple and I felt a little intimidated, but then once we got talking, we found we had quite a few things in common - one in particular our dislike of Barbie! It is strange the things that mind 'bond' you to other people.

I will check back in the New Year. Please do come back and let us know how it is all going.

By the way, one small trick I used to try when I was starting to get better, was to pause after someone asked me a question and take a breath, before answering. It just gave me a little time to collect my thoughts, and taking a breath is always good when you are anxious, I think because your brain gets extra oxygen or something. I think I used to rush on in trying to be clever, but acting more composed (talking slower, pausing more) often did help me.

Everyone in this world is very special. Everyone has a story to tell. When you feel you are special, you are attractive. This is real beauty - inner beauty. Being at peace with yourself. I don't know anything about AD's but can strongly recommend counselling.

Another big hug for Christmas New Year.

Hi deep. How was your Christmas? x

I've just read your first message. You didn't want to go out to a meal as you said you had nothing to add. Just wanted to say that I'd have been very pleased to have sat next to you at a meal! Your e-mail shows an interesting, sensitive person. I think loads of people shy away from the effort of meeting new people, thinking they need to put on a superficial, smiley mask and appear interesting. You don't have to put on a mask. I think you have loads going for you. So many people are also parents - right away you have something in common to talk about. Not hiding the fact that you are feeling lonely can also help discover that other people feel lonely too, despite appearances. They could well benefit from a friendship with you. I haven't read your later e-mails, but I hope you're feeling a bit better.

I've just read your first message. You didn't want to go out to a meal as you said you had nothing to add. Just wanted to say that I'd have been very pleased to have sat next to you at a meal! Your e-mail shows an interesting, sensitive person. I think loads of people shy away from the effort of meeting new people, thinking they need to put on a superficial, smiley mask and appear interesting. You don't have to put on a mask. I think you have loads going for you. So many people are also parents - right away you have something in common to talk about. Not hiding the fact that you are feeling lonely can also help discover that other people feel lonely too, despite appearances. They could well benefit from a friendship with you. I haven't read your later e-mails, but I hope you're feeling a bit better.

Hi, ladies.

HelenRosie, how are you finding the ADs? It is all ADs I am extremely apprehensive about ever taking, yes. I'm scared that a drug can alter my mind/my thoughts - of me becoming feelingless - like a zombie, IYSWIM. I realise that they may work for many people, but I'd feel like such a failure - moreso than I do presently.

How was your Christmas break, gladis?

Mine was a light relief. It was wonderful to be back home with my family. I felt so warm and content... my mother returned with us back to Geneva until the 6th Jan. Needless to say, I hated it when she left.

Now, I feel cold again. I feel empty and that I'm rotting away here. Back to the old routine... nothing exciting to look forward to.

DP knows how unhappy I am/have been, yet I don't feel that he's doing enough to support me. Maybe I'm being selfish, but, come the weekends, it'd be so lovely for him to have some ideas/plans for the three of us. I am in desperate need of a mood boost. No. We might do a weekly grocery shop and that's about it. I feel terribly bad for DS. He must be so incredibly bored, as am I. I am beginning to wonder if I'm with the right man...

I'm sorry I have no good news to report. I'm just at the stage now where I want to go home. More and more each day.

I don't know what the hell I 'm going to do :(

Oh deep with a 19 month old and an almost 5 year old, and an OCD dp, Christmas's can be hard work!!!! I am almost relieved when it is over as these days I like the routine of everyday life.

You sound bored deep. Really really bored. You really do need to get out of the house and do something/anything. Do any elderly English speaking ladies need occasional companions? Is there anything you feel up to doing? Strike while the iron is hot. Put up a note on a notice board somewhere. Life is too short.

It really sounds like you are doing well pyschologically (sp!). You've moved from the first stage of self blame to actually looking at the situation from a different perspective (i.e. maybe it is not all me that is wrong). Do you feel like you might be getting somewhere? Keep at it deep - you will get there. Follow your instinct. What you are going to do, is to keep waking up each day and trying to improve your life. Once you start thinking more about how you could improve your life, than thinking about what others are thinking about you, you will be getting somewhere.

Sounds like you had a pretty hectic Christmas, gladis. Hope you're enjoying the return to "normality".

I am bored, yes. To tears, in fact. But, I have no will to do anything. I am worried for my mental health and my physical health (as I stopped my swimming).

DP seems to be sticking his head in the sand and I am beginning to question his true feelings for me as he sees me unhappy, yet offers no support/suggestions. Or, maybe he's given up trying... I wonder if I'm making him depressed, too.

He unexpectidly returned home this afternoon to collect something for work and I could barely rise a smile - let alone any conversation. I feel deeply saddened at what I've become.

Seriously reconsidering taking those Paroxetine tablets as I have absolutely no hope left :(

Hi DDD; have just been reading your posts and wanted to say how sorry I am that you are feeling so awful but it sounds like you are doing all the right things. Isolation and boredom are inherently depressing and add to that living in a foreign country and it becomes very difficult to maintain equilibrium. I also wanted to say that in a way I know what you are going through. When I was a teenager my parents moved to Geneva and my Mom had a really tough time with it. It's a lovely city, but very difficult to make yourself at home in. The Swiss way of communicating is not always very effusive or warm to newcomers and my Mom did not speak a word of French so found that really difficult too. My Mom used to say exactly what you have said, about feeling frumpy compared to the Europeans and feeling intimidated going out to do small errands and things. Some of the things she did that helped were joining the American Women's Club (even though we're British/Canadian), doing lots and lots of walking and exploring of the city. Sometimes she would go out and walk for an entire day, getting lost in all the old parts of town and joining a fitness club (I think it was over the border in France; sorry can't remember the name of the town/village but there were lots of expats there). Eventually, she started to meet people and develop sort of a little comforting daily routine and even had a French tutor that came to the apartment. Despite this, they eventually moved back to Canada and she's now back to her old self but I know it was a very hard time for her.

Sorry if I have missed this in the thread but is there another AD you could try? I know people sometimes have to try a few before they find one that works for them. I've suffered from depression too and taking AD's for a year got me through a really rough time until I felt I could transition off of them. I bought an exercise bike and do that daily now as well as lots and lots of walking ( I consider those to be my antidepressants). It's really important to recognize that your brain chemistry is "off" and that the imbalance can affect your outlook, feelings, behaviour and perceptions of the world around you.

I'll be thinking about you. Do keep posting here.

Could you write down a plan each night of what you are going to do the next day...for instance the walking. Plan to go for a walk at 10:00, plan a route with stops for coffee. Go to a market or a gallery. And allow 3-4 hours. Every morning, even if it seems utterly pointless, do exactly what you said you would do?

Do you think you could do that for five days - Mon - Fri. Just make yourself do it for five days no matter how mad it felt.

Hello, ladies.

I've been extra down the past few days - hardly talking to DP (not that he really initiates talk with me), snapping at DS and not leaving the house.

This morning, DP asked what was wrong - like he didn't know! Anyway, he asked if I want to go back (home). I said yes. The first time, I've concretely said yes!

He said I'm using DS as an excuse - the guilt I feel dragging DS away from all he knows - his family.

I am really very :(. DP didn't offer me a hug or any comforting words whatsoever. He sat there and said "When do you want to go back?... All you need to sort is the schooling..." That was all I got.

He left for work saying, "I'm sorry. I'm just very sad and don't know what to do".

I will talk with DS this afternoon. I know he gets on with things, but how can he be happy? He's stuck with me all week, we have boring weekends, he's not made any friends and whenever he speaks on the phone to family, I hear him counting down the weeks until he can see them again.

DP has a high-stress job. He is all-consumed. I feel like a spare part. Like the person who cleans the bog and does the laundry. Nothing more. Intimacy is rare and only when initiated by me. I feel totally worthless and unattractive. My relationship with him is a whole other issue in itself.

I'm sinking in the mud :(

I am not sure what to say to you deep - I'm a little out of my depth on this.

Some of the other expats who have responded probably have more sage advice.

The job market at the moment is not good though, and I know many professionals with excellent track records who are out of jobs, so if you suspect there may be significant problems in your relationship you might want to start talking about it now, before your DH throws in his job to come back to the UK.