Blood sugar diet and fast800 support thread #18

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links:
BSD and Fast800 support thread #17
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/3787860-bsd-and-fast800-support-thread-17

Previous thread

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

@waterproofed absolutely not too thin - you look great in that photo! That's really helpful for me, it's hard to aim for a goal when you've never see what it looks like on yourself!

If you can balance it right the ravenous feeling will definitely go. Some great tips on this thread from some people having really good success, but what they told me that works is...

• Try to keep protein above 50g per day and carbs below 50g per day, that stops you feeling hungry
• Don't worry so much about how much fat as it's naturally self limited on 800 cals
• I also find having two meals a day good, you get the benefit of your body having a long break from food overnight (intermittent fasting) and you can have two slightly larger meals. Some people hate this as they need breakfast but I've adjusted to it pretty well

You should definitely be able to get out of feeling hungry.

@IgglePiggleNotInBed I'm probably not the idea, but I find tea with full fat milk keeps me going through sticky moments where I might want a biscuit.

I have about 4 decaf teas with full fat milk per day which I allocate 100ml of milk for on MFP. I then try to get through two of my refillable bottles of water which I think is 75cl and if I need a change I'll have a glass of squash.

I know I could do with more water and that squash probably isn't great but this approach to drinks helps me be the best I can on food.

Oh also from recently re reading the book it says that zero sugar fizzy drinks still give you an insulin spike, so sparking water with lemon or lime is much better. I sometimes put squash in sparking water but I imagine a lot of that would do the same insulin spike because of the sweetener in squash.

@NathanNathan ah thanks so much! I'm sure I remembered something about fizzy drinks still giving an insulin spike, I don't normally drink them but the OG got some in so of course I had to sample

*OH

Welcome @waterproofed!

Genuinely couldn't work out what day it was this morning. But it's Wednesday right?! Ok....!

Today I'm going for a run and going to fast as long as possible. My period still had not arrived, I'm about 4 days late now and I feel crap. I made some red cabbage Waldorf coleslaw yesterday which I will have for lunch with some protein (probably ham) and dinner we are "camping out" in the garden so will have sausages as we watch the satellites go overhead!

Morning.
Sorry about ur gain @NathanNathan it will be water and off today hopefully. I’ve not weighed yet given my behaviour on sat..will do tmrw.
Glad I didn’t have the biscuits yest I found going for a walk yest really helped refocus me :) rather than mindlessly watching tv and then wanting to have something naughty!
I have a funny taste in my mouth today I’m wondering if I’ve gone into ketosis it’s not happened before?
Just had an egg smoked salmon and livlife low carb bread (my last piece!) and then lunch will be a chicken salad with roasted veg.

Good day everyone x

Welcome @IgglePiggleNotInBed. You look great in the pic. I’m currently 70kg but am 5.6 and I want to get to 64....I’ve been there before ten years ago!

 hope you start to feel better soon @thenewaveragebear1983. Sounds like a delicious day food wise and camping while watching the satellites is lovely!

@thenewaveragebear1983 I tried ur suggestion of stopping the binge but it didn’t work! Maybe I need some
Practice. It’s more convenient than than going for a walk!

@Cream123 I think these things do need practice. And sometimes won't work for people. I think because I've had a really good experience with hypno before it makes me more susceptible maybe?

@waterproofed you must be very small framed despite being 5'10 because 9.4 /59 kg would be very very skinny for me and I'm 5'7. In contrast, I'm very heavy boned and people are often surprised how much I weigh because at a size 8 I'm about 10.7 and by a size 10 I'm overweight (by bmi). I love these threads on here where everyone shares their weight and height because they can be SO different, reassures me that we're all different I guess. Your body will tell you when you are finished anyway I find, usually to do with %body fat rather than with weight necessarily.

@waterproofed did you run before, or is this your first time getting into it? It will be good to have another runner on here, I have to say balancing low carb (and low calorie) and running is a great challenge battle for me because the two compete against each other. I eat a lot less when I don't run!

That visualisation technique is really good! Thanks for that.
I just feel like I’m plodding along. I haven’t done a full week yet so I’m just trying to stick with it the best I can.
I got a veg box delivered so at least I know I’ll be including more veg in my diet. Some of it is a bit carby like butternut squash and potato but if I stick to 2 meals a day at 400 cals each I’m hoping to see some results.

@thenewaveragebear1983 yes me too when I was 10 stone 3 and 5.6 I was in size ten and I felt good. My bmi was healthy think it’s about 23-23.5 and I didn’t have a belly. I think I would feel too skinny much less than that...but for some people they look fine less than that...I’m not thinking I’ll ever get ther though unless I stop starting and stopping and just go go go !

I'm making some fishcakes tomorrow with butternut squash in, they are delicious

@thenewaveragebear1983 I’m a small 14 atm at bmi 25 just to compare! When I’m a size ten my bmi is about 23! It could be coz I have big boobs even when slimmer!!

@ILiveInSalemsLot keep going! I'm nearly at two weeks and it does get better after the first few days.

@Cream123 ah that could be why, I have zero boobs at all. Combination of genes, breastfeeding giant babies, and then running all my body fat off. I can literally count my ribs through my boobs....

That will be why! Even at size ten mine are a c. Post having my DS they are a double dd!

Hi I’ve decided to join this. I’ve been doing intuitive eating for a while and it’s kept my weight stable, but I have about 3st to lose to get to middle of healthy BMI. Think I need something a bit more structured.

Monday I had 940 cals and yesterday I had 1050 cals. 800 really isn’t a lot, is it? I could eat that several times over (which explains the extra 3 stone I suppose)

Yesterday I had a cheese omelet with three eggs for lunch and for dinner peri peri chicken thighs with veg. I went for a long walk and had some hummus and carrot when I got back as I was hungry only worked out the cals of hummus after I’d eaten it and there’s over 120 cal in a large spoonful which adds up quickly!

Still on a normal diet that would be considered a low calorie day so going to be pleased. Need to work out 800 amounts.

Both days I’ve gone to bed hungry but not unbearably so. I woke up feeling ok and not hungry so I guess that proves you don’t have to eat every time you feel hunger.
Feel less bloated this morning so that’s good.

Looking forward to chatting with you.

Welcome @Mycatismadeofstringcheese ! You're right, 800 isn't a lot. It's gets easier though, and as you rightly say even if you have 1000/1200 cals it's still a lot less than a normal day. It matters far more what you eat (and when) rather than how much. I rarely do 800 calories because I do so much exercise

Hi- I was having a severely anxious day yesterday.... and fell off the wagon and bounced a few times.... I have had a long chat to my helpful Gp relative, made some plans with my husband and am back on it today. So, here goes. Hopefully I can stick for a bit longer.
I hadn’t realised about the insulin thing with squash... I usually drink squash, should I be drinking something else?

Thank you @NathanNathan - I appreciate your kindness and all the great advice. I never really ate breakfast anyway, so two meals a day suits me fine.

@thenewaveragebear1983 I am definitely small framed despite my towering height and also practically boobless - normally a 30/32B. By comparison, my DM used to weight 53kg at my height and this was her natural weight until she was in her mid-thirties (third child pushed her into a healthy BMI). However, she grew up in the 60/70s so ate healthy food and moved so much more than we do now.

@thenewaveragebear1983 Ah, running! Definitely new to this! I used to move a lot before lockdown, but that obviously dwindled rapidly. I literally spent week 2 of lockdown not moving much from my bed, but I can't live like that. However, this morning my run was a struggle. I can now run about 5K without stopping on a good day, but I think I went into ketosis yesterday (my breath smells horrific and I am a little light headed when I move) and this morning my run felt bad. I managed 3.5K but I had to walk some of it and just felt quite weak. Before ketosis kicked in, I did two 5K runs at the weekend and felt great, but when I put my meals and all the exercise I did into MFP on Sunday it worked out something ridiculous like 800kcal eaten - 650kcal exercised = 250 kcal. It felt good at the time but I wonder if I am paying for it now.

I'd like to keep running so wonder if on my run days I should up the kcals and carbs to avoid feeling so spent. Running does not necessarily make me hungrier, just feeling weaker. Would love a running/fasting buddy to find what works.

@Mycatismadeofstringcheese welcome! I feel you! When I first started fasting, I would look at what 500kcals could afford me on the old 5:2 regime and it was so little! But what really impressed me about the blood sugar diet is the detailed advice about what to eat - keeping my protein and fat up really helps me not to feel too hungry. Also, my bloat is gone which feels very good as it was my constant companion for the last few months of weight-gain. And the quick results, particularly at the beginning, are very motivating.

Off to have lunch - quite fancy a huge bowl of yoghurt with berries, unless someone prepared some protein for me downstairs (I'm working from home while DM and DH are home educating and cooking).

In terms of drinks, I basically mainline coffee and flavoured green tea all day. I brew the green tea for less than a minute and add a herbal tea for flavour and leave the teabag in to steep (mint/red berries/lemon and ginger). I have a couple of 2l pots a day, which keeps the hunger at bay and prevents constipation.

@Whattheladybirdsaidnext sorry I may have thrown a red herring there about the squash, not sure - maybe more knowledgeable people can help.

In the book Moseley says avoid low carlorie drinks as the sweetener gives you an insulin spike. The squash I drink has sweetener so I assumed it was the same, but maybe as it's dilute it's much less bad?

Anyone know?

I think there’s evidence sweetners can cause a spike but it’s mixed when I looked into it. It’s def better than one with sugar in. And I stick to water and herbal teas but I prob have a Diet Coke or squash twice a week...I figure it’s impossible to be “perfect” but I’m sure others are!

I suppose re: sweetener it's all relative isn't it? As in it's better to avoid them, but if say sugar free jelly stops you eating 10 hobnobs then it's the lesser of two evils. And let's not forget the medicinal properties of sugar free tonic water and gin. Be careful with fever tree light, if you do have tonic, as it's actually sweetened with pure fructose and not bsd friendly at all .