Blood sugar diet and Fast800 thread 15

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Some useful links:

Previous thread

Blood Sugar Diet and Fast800 thread 14 http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/3532374-blood-sugar-diet-and-fast800-thread-14

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

That explains why I feel so bloated in the summer! The scales haven't moved for me recently either but I know I can drink a litre of water just overnight.

Can I also recommend some electrolytes? Especially if you're exercising and keeping the carbs low, they are sugar free (although do have a gram of carbs which you need to count if you're being super strict). I have been having one mid morning this week after reading that article about carb flu, and touch wood have not had any real signs of It yet. Maybe coincidence? I used to only use them while running as they alleviate the very heavy 'dragging a corpse' feeling I get when I'm very low carb

Thank you @thenewaveragebear1983 I shall dig out some electrolytes from the last time I climbed a mountain and check the expiry date and carbs 😁

And you think doing higher calories and v low carbs as in more of a proper keto diet would make a difference? That's interesting as I was going to go the other way and do a water fast and cut out all calories and see what happened.

(The thought of a high calorie keto cauliflower and bacon cheese is soooo appealing!!!)

Heck, I might do both and see 😆 I won't be any worse off.

I am drinking enough water but not too much I think. I don't have carb flu and I feel energetic and am sleeping well.

And I am visualising my slimmer internal organs and trying to feel positive 😀

Grey only from my own experience this week, I would say it could give you a little boost to kick things off. I've never attempted ketosis before, and it's not technically a requirement of the plan. (Although the fact that you are already in ketosis might discredit my theory somewhat) My ketosticks arrived today and I'm not in ketosis despite my superlow carbs so...go figure! Bodies are weird.

I suppose it never hurts to mix things up a bit and for me I've definitely noticed that this week I've eaten different foods, been much more selective over my foods, and far more honest with myself. I've had more calories but then I do need more than 800, and 1400 is manageable for me as in I don't feel deprived, but it's about half my tdee so still low enough for weightloss.

Ugh my period has just arrived 2 days early in this heat - no wonder I was feeling bloated! Which I'm also hoping will mean when it's done I'll be back down even lower than before lol (desperately searching for silver linings!)

Thank you Bear and Pheonix for all your tips.

Day 2 for me today, managed 16:8 despite a 0430 start for work, but it was hard work waiting until 11.30 for brunch which was FSD chai breakfast Bircher and an apple.
I had a hot and sour cuppa soup mid afternoon as I feeling a bit headache, lack of salt I think.

Dinner has been Tuna, butterbean and artichoke salad again.
About 5l of water and a couple of cups of black tea. ( High water intake due to nature of job and extra heat stress today)
Total calories 891.

Early night tonight as another 4.30 start with work, breakfast will be the same again, but then I’ve run out of the food I brought with me so dinner and Saturday breakfast will have to be picked up from a little tesco extra tomorrow afternoon prior to a taxi across the country to the next work location. Ready to start early again Saturday.

I bought these in Tesco today, I thought they'd actually be really handy as snacks or breakfast. Little mini tins of tuna with oil and seasoning, 140 cals 2.2g carbs in each. Assuming you can stomach fish for breakfast?

Good idea for the future, Bear. I’m hoping go to get some boiled eggs and maybe ham or smoked salmon, with salad. I’ve had tuna butterbean salad for tea the last 2 days so fancy a change.

Its a pita living out of a suitcase and not having cooking facilities. 3 different hotels in 4 nights with no fridge Saturday. So will have to eat hotel food Saturday evening I’m thinking steak and salad. Then cooked breakfast Sunday morning, however it all depends on how the shifts and travelling pan out.

I just need to try and avoid junk, easier said than done once a shift goes pear shaped. Home Sunday evening so will be able to cook next week, but won’t be so strict as it’s family time after being away for 5 days so need to kick back a bit, hence why I’m trying so hard this week.

Just that does sound tricky. Steak and salad is usually available or do-able at least, in most restaurants/pubs.

I'm closing up the kitchen today on 1450 cals, 24g carbs, 17k steps (8km was a run). Another really good day for me. I'm really into my groove now, it just feels very easy and I'm not really craving anything. I even sliced up a caterpillar cake for dd and her mates and didn't even so much as sample a crumb! Clearly this is where I've been going wrong all this time!

Tomorrow could be my first challenge- I'm going for lunch with a friend and I've just looked at the menu and it's entirely^^ sandwiches and panini. They do side salads though so I'm going to have to be 'that woman' and ask for a salad with one of the fillings rather than bread aren't I?

FYI BBC one at 10.45 tonight has a programme called 'the truth about...' and tonight's is about carbohydrates

Thanks for all the wedding congratulations!

It’s a bit crazy here, but I have a kitchen full of flowers ready to decorate the village hall tomorrow with a group of friends, and that feels good.
@PhoenixMama my radical change of shape is due to an amazing exercise Ive been doing called TRX . It’s a class at my local authority gym, 30 mins twice a week , it’s done more for me than running, gym, even dance ( which I totally love). It works the core with every exercise, even if your doing squats or bicep curls the core is being worked.
It’s neen a major shift for me because I’m apple shaped and my core has never been toned before.
I’ve always been that I’ll never have a flat tummy because it’s genetic. No women I my family do.
Ha to that. TRX has sorted me right out.

Ohyesiam is trx the one with the long cords and you use it to counterbalance you? I wondered about getting one of those as we have a tree in our garden with a branch that would be perfect to suspend it from. Do you use a home one? I have seen them that suspend from door frames too but that doesn't fill me with confidence.
Are you excited for tomorrow?

I've weighed in at 10.2.6 this morning, another half pound off - and my lowest weight ever! So I'm chuffed with that, although still not in ketosis. Although maybe that's just my cheap dodgy Chinese knockoff Ketostix? Oh well, I'm really pleased with 7.5lbs off this week!!

I'm hovering around the same place right now which is a relief. Is it awful that I'm looking forward to DD being away from Tuesday so I can just eat to plan (and by plan I mean COOK meals twice a day!)

Bear - well done on your 7lbs. I'm not sure I've ever gotten below 25g of carbs so it's a huge achievement.

OhYes - It sounds like TRX is something I need in my life!

Today has been hard, another 4.30 start and got to tonight’s hotel at 4pm after a rubbish day at work but I’ve not overindulged. I did break the fast after 15 hours though.

Breakfast was Chai breakfast museli again.
Lunch a hot and sour cuppa soup with an apple.
Dinner sweet chilli chicken slices, sweet and crisp salad and half a tub of Taziki all from tesco express at the airport.

2 cups of black tea and loads of water. Total cals 849.

As a plus my uniform trousers feel a little loose.

Breakfast in the fridge for tomorrow is 2 hard boiled eggs and a packet of sliced ham that I will have with an apple.

4.30 start again for probably another 12 hour shift ending up at the opposite end of the country again.

Tricky lunchtime choice today, thankfully I was with a dear friend who is as obsessed with dieting as I am so I could say 'can we go somewhere else that doesn't just serve bread' and not feel like a total #dietwanker
However, the place we did go was equally rubbish for choice so I ended up having a chicken ranch salad with dressing (which I crudely estimate as having 18g carbs per serving) and that might have pushed me over 25g for the first time this week. However, I've streamlined my evening meal to cut out a few extras to hopefully balance it out.

I think I'm retaining some water today (actually I know I am because I couldn't get my rings on this morning!) which I think is due to my imminent period arriving- although I've had absolutely no pmt, carb cravings or sleeplessness which are my usual pmt indicators so that's pretty good overall. I've been drinking gallons today to try and resolve the retention.

Phoenix I absolutely capitalised on my kids being away and went super strict on the diet this week as you know, it makes it so much easier when you only have to think of your own food!

Well I did end up a few calories over today, (actually a lot over) and 37g carbs. 20k steps (including a 9.5k run). I'm a bit annoyed with myself because I'd had such a good week, but I'm not going to use it as an excuse to just eat. Hopefully as the carbs were still ok I should be able to get away with it just this once!

@Justtrying You sound to be doing really well under the circumstances! I travel a lot for work too in various months, so I will try and emulate your ideas of working around it!!

Has anyone done fast800 whilst training for a run 5 k - 10k?

Feeling I run pretty much every day between 5-10 km with a few longer ones thrown in but I don't do fast800 (as in, i don't eat 800 calories). This week I've gone very low carb and still run every day, but have had more calories - and it's been really successful. It's a case of trial and error really. I do find though that carbs before a race (either gels or carb-loading the night before) definitely improve my performance. I gained approx 5/6lbs while training for my half marathon, due to increasing my carbs to train, and eating more generally, and I also found that because I was eating more I gained muscle during that time as well. You often hear people say that running 'strips fat' but actually, endurance running is surprisingly ineffective at calorie burning as we are not evolved to expend huge amounts of calories hunting our prey. Running training such as sprints, hills, intervals, long and short runs, varying pace and distance will be more efficient at burning fat, increasing your fitness- but will require more calories to do so.
It also depends how much body fat you have; if your % is high then you might be able to run from your 'reserves' and manage it on 800 calories, but if you are low % body fat your body will soon tell you that you need more fuel, either by slowing down or by urgent refuelling biscuits after your workouts

Thank you so much Waver (and hello :-) ). I have a holiday coming up and a 5 k run when I got back (run is 5 weeks away).

My body fat is 32% on body fat scales and, ahem 37% using callipers.

So I need to find the balance of getting fitter and losing weight (whilst also working and looking after kids and not going insane!). I know it's vain but I don't want to feel a blob on holiday. I will probably do slightly more that fast800, more like fast1000 as I think that has suited me better in the past. I just don't want to end up bingeing. Interesting with the interval training. I'm running with a runner so they are aware I am unfit....

Waver are you low carb constantly these days? I remember you saying about training for the half. I definitely don't want to gain at this point.

Feeling as a rudimentary plan, this is what would I endeavour to do (I'm not always successful): work out your tdee based on your normal lifestyle but not including formal exercise, then deduct what you think is manageable to result in weightloss. (Eg 1000 cals is fine for some but could be high if you are particularly small framed or don't have much to lose- I aim for about 1400 cals) and stick to your Mediterranean diet as per the plan. Factor in some additional carbs if you need them before your race or before your long run each week. Bear in mind that your 5km will burn maybe 3-400 cals? It's not a tremendous amount really, and as you get fitter you'll burn less as well. Be mindful of your protein- you need to get enough for repair and muscle building. When I had my few months of crazy eating while training it was due to not getting enough protein I'm sure. You could factor in some strength training (eg hiit workout) as well? I personally would aim to not eat your exercise calories, at least at first, but accept that there will be some days when you really need them- and just monitor it. If you're starving hungry all the time then you need more nourishment to support your exercise.

Also, I am very sensitive to my cycle, and in your luteal phase (after ovulation and before AF) it can really affect performance 'fitness' so I use electrolytes to prevent stitch and generally reduce the heavy legs feeling I get at that totm particularly- and a low carb diet can exacerbate that.

Interval training will increase your fitness and performance and burn fat much more effectively than a steady 'slog' at a comfortable pace. My Sunday 2 hours long run is my easiest of the week, whereas some of my 25min hill sprints intervals absolutely thrash me. My current training is pushing my max pace (5km in 25 mins) to 10km at the same pace and it's gruelling. Simple things like run up a short hill and walk down a few times, or run/walk between lampposts during your run will all help. Are you on Strava? It's a really good free app and can help you monitor pace/routes/distance etc

Phew. That was a long post!

All this in mind, running is amazing and the benefits are far more than just calorie burn. I respect and protect my body so so much more now than I ever have. Good luck in your race!

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/feel-better-live-more-with-dr-rangan-chatterjee/id1333552422?i=1000421491717

@Feelingfortyisntfun this is a really good podcast as well about the many benefits of running.

In fact, there are loads in this series that are really interesting to listen to about all sorts of health related stuff if that's your cup of tea, the gut health one is also very interesting

Oh well, 3 great days and caved in today. Homesick, tired and premenstrual so after a 12 hour shift on minimal sleep due to hot and noisy hotel last night I have sucummed to wine and pizza tonight. Total cals 2000 so could be worse.

Will try for a couple of days this week but otherwise be back on plan next weekend when back in work. I’m home tomorrow evening and want to enjoy time with dh and dd.

Which will mean shared family meals, picnics and treats. Don’t want dd stressing about food choices she is only 8. I will load up on protein and veg and skip the carbs some days.

Closing up today on 1100 cals, 29g carbs, virtually zero steps as we've been travelling all day and then within minutes of arriving my 3yo fell down some steps and we've been in minor injuries and then a&e with him and his minor head injury all day. So I'd hardly eaten, then ate loads for dinner, but just ham and salad, so cals/carbs are still good. I will be having gin tonight though!!

I had two small chicken salads and lots of fizzy water today while the rest of my family ate lots of yummy things out 😩

I reckon 800 calories at the most as I didn't have any dressing at all on the second one. V low carbs.

I skipped the popcorn, cupcakes and sweets that my children enjoyed at the cinema and I would have loved a glass of wine and resisted.

Arghhh. I had better have lost at least a lb by the end of the weekend 😁

(And does anyone else want to try and switch to trying to think about it in kg and grams JUST as a private rebellion against Jacob Rees Mogg???)