Blood sugar diet and Fast800 thread 15

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Some useful links:

Previous thread

Blood Sugar Diet and Fast800 thread 14 http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/3532374-blood-sugar-diet-and-fast800-thread-14

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

Thank you. At the moment it's too hot for me to eat much during the day which helps but am getting premenstrual so all bets are off

I know I haven't been strict enough but when I add all of those stupid pounds up i'd be at my goal by now!
yes-or: if I hadn't been totally on it the rest of the time, I'd have gained 12lbs by now.
Phoenix you're maintaining/plateauing- call it what you will but it means the same. You've had a stressful time recently, but you've overall managed to maintain your weightloss despite not being 100% on plan, which is pretty impressive when you think about it. My advice would be to go back to basics- personally if you're struggling to keep to 800 and every day trying and then feeling like you've 'failed', then your body is trying to tell you something. You know the foods to eat, so I'd plan a menu for the week, but step away from the scales, eat to satiety and tune back in to your nutrition/cravings/appetite. 800 calories is not sustainable for ever, I think he does say 20 weeks absolutely max (which is around about your 5 months?) but don't use that 'week off' as a stick to whack yourself with- use it as a necessary and important part of the plan as a whole. If you stick to the right foods you won't gain loads and anything you do gain will go quickly, and if you preplan your menu then you won't need to count carbs daily etc. You might then find you return to the plan with renewed vigour, or might find a more long term workable solution to lose the remaining weight you want to, which could be a 5:2, fast in the week only, alternate days etc.

I think just about everyone, myself included, has had a long term period of 'extended maintenance'- dammit, I've been 10.3 for a year and my target was 9.13. Four measly pounds!! But learning how to maintain is the vital part of this dieting puzzle, it's where we've gone wrong before, it's why "95% of diets fail" - and yet you've managed it, even during summer, even during stress, even with X,Y,Z going on. If you'd only stepped on the scales once a week, you'd not have seen that up/down graph but instead you'd have a straight line, and that's one of the hardest bits cracked.

I say it all the time, but do be kind to yourself.

Feel a bit disappointed that I fell off the wagon last night
Me and OH had bad days, ended up going to the pub but had steak with mushrooms
Stuck to vodka &soda water

Worst was eating rice crackers when I got home!!!!!

I had a bad day yesterday. I woke up feeling as if I was physically shaking 😔

I ended up definitely going over on calories, plus eating a little bit of carbs, plus some/a lot of wine.

Back on track today though, but I need to remember this way of eating hits me hard on day 4. I remember now that's when I failed when I tried continual back to back fast/keto days before a few years ago...

Today, I am planning a long dog walk to stretch my sore muscles and get 10,000 steps in, lots of water, half a large avocado with a baked egg for lunch and beef stir fry with lots of green vegetables for dinner. I will resist the wine.

But I am thinking maybe two weeks is too much for me to do this continuously... does anyone do three days on, one day off or similar? And could I make that work longer term?

Ideally, I wanted to do continual fast days for 8 weeks, but perhaps that's just unachievable?

OR maybe I just need to buckle up and understand this is tough and stick it out for maximum early results?

Also, I am definitely going to need to take something for constipation 🙈

Grey it is tough at first. I can't remember how much you need to lose? The two weeks fast800 are designed not just for weightloss- they are deliberately sufficiently low calories so you drain fat from your organs, and your whole metabolic process ramps up, you become insulin sensitive again and thus your ongoing diet plan is more effective and efficient. All that being said: some people just don't have that much visceral fat (if you've done fasting before or you exercise a lot, you might not?) plus some people aren't insulin resistant - in which case, the two major benefits to the sharp shock of fast800 aren't really there.

So: it's perfectly ok to do alternate days, but I would say still imperative to follow a low carb, high fat, Mediterranean diet on the other days. It will be very difficult doing the 'old' 5:2 way of eating whatever you want in those non-fast days, and what's more you'll never get to that nice easy phase of not wanting carbs because you'll always be just one day into your detox. You could try an alternating fast800 and maybe 1200 cals on the alternate day depending on your tdee? Would that be more do-able?

@thenewaveragebear1983

Thank you.

I have given myself a good talking to whilst looking at my visceral fat (I am definitely an apple!).

I am going to stick this out and woman up about it.

Do you think I should strictly count today as day one again and do a minimum of another 14 days before I even think of another glass of wine? Grrrrr. I should. And preferably for longer as well.

I think I am going to have to buy the book. I thought as I'd read all the 5:2 books, just getting the recipe book this time and reading lots of articles would be enough, but you've explained some things I hadn't got.

@MozzchopsThirty me too 😔 But today is a new day and I have renewed my own personal pledge to do this for myself and my health.

What are you planning to eat today?

Made a mess of things yesterday. Ate very little all day, didn’t exercise, then sat in the garden with a bottle of wine and crisps. Feel unwell today. I am one of those people who struggles with summer, house is always too hot, can’t sleep etc. I am drinking water and plodding through housework. I have moved wine out of kitchen/fridge and replaced with elderflower. The only alcohol I drink is cold white wine so if it’s not really well chilled I am not tempted. Need to do this!

@Riddleofthesands That's you, me and @MozzchopsThirty who (admit to having) fallen off the wagon a little bit yesterday.

I have now bought the book on kindle and I am actually going to write out my reasons for doing this and keep referring to it.

Ditto the importance of keeping things out of sight and not available. Unfortunately, I do all the cooking (although I enjoy it!) and nobody else is cutting carbs out. I am adding something carby for them to eat alongside what I am eating but I have to ignore the temptations.

@GreyBasket I've had an egg salad for lunch but am out again tonight so will stick to vodka again and not eat any carbs

How's yours going?

Grey I would definitely recommend the book, usually Tesco have the original BSD book in their 2 for £8 offer. It explains the science very well. I like the fast800 book too, it's more updated and has new info in it. They are easy accessible reads too, no heavy scientific jargon or anything. Re: restarting day 1- I suppose it's up to you, would psychologically it help you to have a clean slate and do the full 2 weeks?

Can I just add as well- we can have some carbs and if you're really struggling with carb cravings then there are carbs you can have which will take the edge off. You don't need to count carbs (but it can be helpful) as by having 800-1000 calories and avoiding the key 'big 5' you'll be unlikely to get too many. So for example, dairy, nuts (particularly cashew nuts), celeriac, squash, lentils and beans are all ok within the plan but won't spike your insulin and won't/shouldn't leave you craving more. The high fibre/ slow absorption of the sugars in these 'good carbs' is key.

For reference the 'big 5' are:
Potato
Rice
Pasta
Grains
Sugar
(And we do add fruit to that list too, except berries, apples, pears etc.)

Yup GreyBasket and MozzchopsThirty, not a good one yesterday. Haven’t eaten yet today, not sure what’s for dinner, I am waiting in for 2 deliveries but am hoping to get to fish monger before they close. My kids are on summer hols now so I just made burgers, salad and spaghetti carbonara for them. I love the idea of writing down reasons for doing this, short term goals and long term goals. I will get out my copy of the book and read a chapter or two. I think I might weigh tomorrow it might focus me.

Just had my first try of Miso Soup - me so hungry I think it's called not a fan I'm afraid but on to chilli lime tuna for dinner so fingers crossed. Then just have to get passed the dreaded drink o clock and I should still be on track 4 days in 6lbs down have to keep remembering that!

Mommybear i don't like miso either, it has a weird 'beany' taste to it don't you think?? If you want salt, you can also drink hot bovril, some people really swear by it.

mommybear1 you’ve lost 6 lbs in 4 days, wow, well done!

I nipped out and bought sea trout for dinner, my favourite fish, will have with veg.

Anyone else finding it hard to train on 800??

Glad it's not just me thenewaveragebear1983 I thought I'd try it as it was so low in calories I'm not sure I'd take to Bovil to be honest reminds me of my grandad but hate the smell! Yes I agree re the taste I said to my DH it tasted as I would
Imagine mustyness does 😂

Mozzchops yes, very. What training do you do? I find it almost impossible to run long distances on anything less than about 1200 cals and if I do do it on less, the next day I pay for it with a raging appetite. I worked out it was protein that I was missing though, not carbs. These days I don't ever really do 800 cals so it isn't so much of a problem, and in my early days I was doing 800 calories but only running 2-3km, plus I had rather extensive 'fuel reserves' fat to draw upon. Once my body fat percentage dropped and my bmi got down into the normal range, I noticed a definite shift in my appetite and felt as if I was clawing back calories after each run. It took me a few months to find my strategy to allow me to train hard but not just eat the calories back, and more.

Circuits and hiit training don't seem to be affected in the same way, but for example I ran 15km this morning and it burned 1000+ cals. It's expecting a lot of my body to be able to perform to that level, plus recover sufficiently, on 800 calories. I'd say use your judgement, and if needs be allow increased calories but use them for fat, protein and 'allowed carbs' not bananas and lucozade!

Thank you @Riddleofthesands I'm really pleased and it's given me the motivation to keep going - ooooo your dinner sounds lovely. @MozzchopsThirty yes I've found it really hard this week I'm going with it taking time for my body to adjust DH has massively struggled he usually goes for a 5 mile run every other day he could only manage 2 the other day and has skipped his other day 😕. I'm keeping my walking in but have skipped my runs for the first week I think once I've got used to the diet I should be ok to run again - I'll keep you posted. I know thenewaveragebear1983 posted on the meal planner thread a really good breakfast pre workout which I'm going to try maybe have a look at that?

Mommy I always run fasted too, so it's more my food the day before that counts iykwim. There is a lot of positive and negative evidence regarding the use of keto diets for endurance athletes, same as there is conflicting advice about running fasted and the impact of cortisol, so I would suggest to do your research and also to monitor your own situation. See how it works for you. I can recommend the sugar free electrolytes for you runners, just dissolve them in your water and they can help ease the heavy legs feeling that we can experience when we low carb

I am reading the book on kindle - I think it was less than £4 so probably cheaper than buying the printed version.

@thenewaveragebear1983 thank you! I am re motivated.

I made this for dinner tonight (double portions) and the rest of the family ate it with some rice. thefast800.com/beef-stir-fry/
The smallest child solemnly picked out the mushrooms... but overall it was a winner.

@MozzchopsThirty A much better day today! I hope yours ends on a high as well!

@Riddleofthesands I am thinking about my reasons while I am reading the book. Wanting to live longer is a key one! None of my maternal relatives live to old age it seems. I need to buck that trend as I am already in my 40s 😆

I also want my breasts to shrink a bit as they hurt my back. And annoy me when I run. That's why I haven't run in ages.

But most importantly, I want to look skinny. I know that's a pathetic "reason", but I do. I want to be slim. I want to wear clothes that suit very slim people.

Grey me too. That was my main motivation. I was a teenager in the 90's where the waif was the aspirational look and I've had to make my peace with the fact I am never going to be either 6ft tall or 8 stone, and certainly not both. I have recently been doing a bit of soul searching because, although now I am 'slim' I'm actually quite muscly as a result of all my running/weights- and have had to come to the conclusion that to be slim requires exercise, and exercise has made me 'lean' but that does mean I'll still never get the waif like look. It's not a look I have ever aspired to.

When I first started this and was 100% sugar free for about 3-4 months I got through it by saying in my head 'no thanks, I'd rather be skinny' because I knew that sugar was the thing that was preventing that.

I hold my mother largely responsible for my entirely fucked up body image and attitude to food, and please don't think I don't realise how screwed up I sound.

Happy Saturday everyone...lovely to see loads of new starters doing really well this week.

Grey your comment on wanting to wear clothes that suit slim people struck a chord with me. I’m the same...the styles I love, the things I have always wanted to wear, have never suited my body shapes and realistically never will. I’m really happy to have lost weight and am gradually getting more optimism that I will keep it off, but I don’t enjoy exercise and I’m very hourglass, so I can’t see me ever being slender. So I’m learning to love my curves and experimenting with what fits, suits and pleases me.

Start: 16st8.4
End of Month 1: 15st3.6 - 18.8lb lost
End of Month 2: 14st11.2 - 6.4lb lost
End of Month 3: 14st0.4 - 10.8lb lost
End of Month 4: 13st5.0 - 9.4lb lost
End of Month 5: 13st2.4 - 2.6lb lost

So this month has been really slow, despite no big off-plan moments. So maybe its a combination of my body getting used to the diet, with a bit of complacency....im still avoiding all the things i should, not snacking, cooking at weekends and portioning it out for the week....but im not actually counting calories closely now so it has probably crept up to around 1000 a day. Not over tdee, but still enough to slow me down I expect.

Hi everyone, feel much better today having been sensible yesterday, tummy looks a little flatter and have squeezed myself into next size down minimiser bra. Weighed and I have lost 3 lbs. Delighted. So encouraged to continue. My scales show 1/4 lbs so I think I will weigh every morning to try and keep my focus.

Posts from Grey and Thenewaveragebear struck a chord here too. I am early 50s so at that crossroads of elasticated waists vs still having a trim figure. I would also really like to be stronger, especially upper body strength but I am so lazy regarding exercise.

Just about to grocery shop, lots of salad stuff and chicken for the weekend. And crucially try to stay off the wine.