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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/10/2018 18:51

Fd done here on 533... cup of tea later while watching GBBO Shock

How have the other Tues fasters got on?

mickeymacca · 16/10/2018 19:44

Well done 43 and thanks for sharing your graph. I've used MFP today and have been shocked to see I'm at 1000 calories..gonna do a b2b and aim for 500 but input it as I go instead of at the end of the day which I just did duh! It's been lovely reading through and thanks for all the advice and encouragement. I stayed away from the board because I was feeling rubbish.... A bit like when you don't want to open your credit card statement Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2018 20:17

Well done, 43
If you feel tempted by GBBO, then drink water and clean your teeth !

Just kick your shoes of and chill with us anytime, mickey
Most of us have found it tough at times, but we support each other and we get through it

1000 is a decent miniFD.
Why not just do an FD tomorrow,
rather than trying for a consecutive b2b and a mini - might be too much of a tough start

For future FDs, I always recommend people plan and calorie count the full menu for their FD the day beore
Avoids suprises and ad hoc eating - you just stick to the plan

OP posts:
Borris · 16/10/2018 21:49

B2b d2 finished here. Was starving first thing but then a few cups of tea staved off hunger for a while. Had a slim a soup and toast for lunch. And then coop 345 cal fish pie with a big salad for tea. It was quite nice.

Tomorrow I’m going to try to skip breakfast although I often wake up desperate for breakfast after a b2b. I’m not sure if it’s psychological that I know I can have breakfast and then I want it.

Well done to other fasters. The day is nearly done Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/10/2018 21:50

mickey I know exactly what you mean head in the sand Grin

It's weird bcf but if I've made it to 8pmish on a fd, even if watching something like GBBO there's no way I'd undo all the hard work...

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/10/2018 21:52

Well done borris Smile

Borris · 16/10/2018 22:20

I agree 43. On a FD if I’ve made it to kids bedtime then no food on earth would make me ruin it. It’s the NFDs that are tricky!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2018 23:14

Well done on your b2b, Borris

To help control NFDs, of course the healthy 5:2 habits, especially no snacking.

Also, the day before each NFD, do a rough meal plan for the day in advance - not necessarily calorie counting, just deciding all the content and timing of each meal

OP posts:
Borris · 17/10/2018 08:00

Thanks bcf 66.2kg this am. Down 0.6 from last week. I’m thrilled 😁

quackingduck222 · 17/10/2018 08:15

Cloud - Welcome to the thread. Once you get a bit more used to FDs it gets a lot easier. It is really hard at First as it’s a big shock to the system. I found the days after a FD I was ravenous but that also got easier. Again once you get used to it training on a FDay is fine just give yourself a bit of time and let your body adapt. Occasionally I struggle the day after a FD as it is like running on empty occasionally.

43 - That’s great your husband is supportive.
Well done on a great FD.

Mickey - I hope your FD went well. I used to regularly slope off for a week or two after a binge but I would recommend coming back and confessing as the support I found was invaluable and spurred me on. Rather than being down about it that usually lead to another binge.

Boys - Well done on your impromptu FD. Gets it out the way early.

Cheddar - Good for you, having a plan of action really does help.

BCF - Yes Il get back to HIIT, I had full intentions of doing HIIT running Monday but the fast sections were more moderate as I was struggling a bit with breathing and a stitch.

Snail - Great SV. Well done.

Borris - Well done on your B2B.

I’m swapping my FD to today as unexpectedly gained 3lbs over two days from having healthy meals. I don’t understand it but hopefully most of that will be gone tomorrow.

Good luck to everyone fasting today

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 17/10/2018 09:39

well done on your SV borris Smile

quacking is there a reason do you think, totm looming? Anyway, hope the FD gets rid of it!

NFD here but got a busy old day so hoping i can avoid any snacking

BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2018 14:11

well done on your SV borris

I suggest shortening the HIIT bursts, duck
Try a single Tabata and then leave it for the next day

< drone is hovering quietly above 43, with snack detectors ON 👁 >

OP posts:
snailhunter · 17/10/2018 14:14

bcf Originally I wanted to get down to 9st 6lb or thereabouts but I just stuck between 9st 10 and 9st 12 for three months before my first break in August and figured that was fine - it's healthy weight BMI and my waist measurement is also in the healthy range. I would still love to get a few more pounds off, though, so I'm going to see what happens with Phase 2.

Have just been spontaneous (which never happens) and booked a lovely holiday cottage by the sea for the second half of half term next week - so excited! I love the seaside in the autumn. Hoping for lots of beautiful walks and cycle rides. Dog has never seen the sea so will be great fun to see how he reacts.

cloudjumper · 17/10/2018 18:37

Well, I made through the FD yesterday, thanks all  Although watching the GBBO was bordering on self-torture  Another FD tomorrow, which is usually the hardest - it's my non-work day, which I spend with DD (2.5 years), and one of the things we do is to meet a friend and her toddler in a cafe  And I have to cook the kids' dinner (normally they eat at nursery and after-school club). Wish me luck!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2018 21:03

Well done on yesterday's FD, cloud and good luck tomorrow
Remember: don't eat any of the DC leftovers !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2018 21:05

snail Enjoy your holiday with SnailDog. Sound very relaxing

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 17/10/2018 21:36

Thanks for hovering bcf a successful no snacking sub 300cal tdee today :-) dh and ds decided they wold get some burger king on the way home but I resisted and had a bowl of soup with some cooked chicken when I got in Halo

Ooh the cottage sounds lovely snail hope ddog enjoys it but doesnt do what my old boy did on his first visit, he decided to 'bite' the waves but managed to drink loads of sea water and within minutes had proceeded to vomit and projectile poo at the same time, it was hilarious for us but truly horrific for the lovely little family that was just passing by Grin he never drank sea water again though!

Well done cloud and good luck for tomorrow, not ideal fd circumstances but stay strong...

WhiteWinterWitch · 17/10/2018 23:01

Evening folks. Sorry haven't had the chance to check in all week. Did a fd yesterday and doing my 2nd tomorrow it's totm so not expecting too much from the scales. Had 2lbs off at the end of last week & now in a new weight bracke. Had a hectic weekend did a 5k mudrun which was both terrifying & funny in equal measureGrin have new found respect for cross country runners. Well done to everyone on their svs & fds & hello to any returners (I'm a constant returnerWink)

Had a really good nfd today, no sugary treats 2 healthy meals & even managed to turn down tea & cake at work again!! Pilates & Spin Class planned for lunch & dinner tomorrow again & veggie omelette after. Lots of brews to see me through😇 have a good one tomorrow folks. Hope the sun is still shining on the Rhine BCF I'm off to Krakow on Sunday for a few nights really looking forward to it.

mickeymacca · 17/10/2018 23:17

Thanks quacking hope your FD went OK today. I'm following bcfs advise and ate normally today FD tomorrow. 43 that poo story!! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2018 00:37

Well done on your SV and milestone, winter
Are you in a lower BMI class now ?

Good luck tomorrow, Mickey

Well done on your FD, 43
Eeek, your old dog
Anyone struggling to resist chocolate this week, visualise that !

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/10/2018 07:09

Well done on your SV winter
Fd today, on train with an already rumbly belly, might have to get a latte before I head to the office. Good luck fellow Thursday fasters Smile

mickeymacca · 18/10/2018 07:46

I'm with you today 43 going to hold out until around 4 and just drink loads and loads until then as I find it easy to fast at work. Gonna have a baby bel and an apple to keep me going until dinner with the husb which will be leftover homemade chilli with salad. Have a good one

quackingduck222 · 18/10/2018 08:00

43 - I never considered TOTM, yeah could possibly be I have my approx cycles worked out but had coil changed 2 weeks ago. Could be sending my body loopy and explain my spotty face.

Snail - What’s phase 2? I hope you have a lovely holiday.

Good luck for your B2B cloud.

43 - Well done for resisting Burger King, that’s a fantastic NSV. Good luck for today.

WhiteWinter - Congratulations on breaking that next stone bracket. Push through TOTM, you may well get a delayed whoosh. Huge respect for your mud run. Good luck for your FD tomorrow.

Mickey- Yeah my FD went alright, nearly caved and pursponed at mid day but got myself busy and powered through. Good luck for your FD today.

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

WoodenCupCake · 18/10/2018 08:10

signing in newbie

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/10/2018 08:59

Hopefully it is a totm blip quacking

good luck mickey and mmmm leftover chilli always tastes so much nicer Smile

Welcome wooden and good luck Smile

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