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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Boysmomma · 18/10/2018 09:26

Morning all!

Had a messy week but I've been very good (surprisingly!!) Moved FD to today and Friday after a few late nights with DS1 which led to second dinners (all within TDEE and no sugary crap!). Also forgot to allow for the dark chocolate square on Monday so that kinda ruined my FD, but a great mini Grin

Good luck Thursday fasters! And well done everyone on their SV!

snailhunter · 18/10/2018 10:52

FD for me today, keeping busy! quacking Phase 2 is just what I'm calling my second attempt to get down to original target weight after my summer break. Because it sounds sort of official. :)

43 thanks for the sea water tip. I will keep a close eye on snail dog! I do not want that to happen in a rented cottage...

Stircrazyschoolmum · 18/10/2018 12:20

Afternoon all. Wow! Where did the week go? Well, first bit of good news.. I survived tough mudder! (Whew.. no broken bones and all fingernails still intact!) Second bit of good news, the pesky cold seems to have done its worst and left me. Third bit, sober October is still going well. All in all a good week.

BUT I've STS from a weight perspective and bounced between 61.8 and 63 all week. boys I think I am falling into the trap you mentioned and weighing myself too often. I also may be psyching myself out as I know that I'm at my 'sticky' weight. I think I need to give some thought to what my 'happy' weight is. Ideally I'd like to lose another 3-4 kg but if I end up looking haggard and not being able to eat nice things in moderation then its probably too ambitious. That said, it might be the right time to add in some HIIT training or similar and focus on tightening and toning rather than just numbers on the scales, although I am worried this will make me feel more hungry!

Hello to newbies cloud and wooden welcome back Mickey and clutter. I hope everyone else has gotten rid of their bugs.

snail have a lovely holiday by the sea, our dog loves the water. Take lots of old towels as I doubt they will give you enough.

43 and quacking I can empathise with the frustration of STS but my sense is you both have a really good understanding of this WOL and you both have the determination to get to where you want to be so don't let the Burger Kings wear you down!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/10/2018 14:29

well done on getting through tough mudder stir and I'm sure the scales will start moving again soon.

Thankfully I resisted Burger King Grin

FD going okay, how about you mickey

BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2018 14:35

Excellent achievement, nailing Tough Mudder, Stir

Weight varies naturally - even without dieting - from day to day and even at different times within the day.
So, look at the trend over 2-3 weeks - that should smooth out any temporary blips, so the trend is downwards

In your case, I advise you don't weigh more often than weekly, 1st thing in the morning after FD2

Reminder to everyone - flu jab
It's a good pro-active health action for most folk if you can, especially once you get into middle age, or are a carer, or have health issues.
I've just had mine this morning

Good luck, Thursday fasters !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2018 14:38

Stir To avoid hunger, keep exercise sessions to no more than 60 minutes in any day
HIIT, martial arts, strength / lifting are all good at fat-burning - especially fasted in the morning - without increasing hunger too much.

It is running and swimming that can spike hunger, especially if longer than about 40 minutes

OP posts:
Stircrazyschoolmum · 18/10/2018 14:46

Thanks BCF I will keep that in mind.. I’m a rubbish swimmer (no danger there) but need to swap my mindset from long slow jogs to sprint sets.. HIIT style. :-)

snailhunter · 18/10/2018 16:04

Dammit, abrupt end to FD today when I felt a migraine coming on. Can't take my anti-migraine medication on an empty stomach and was feeling profoundly rubbish anyway so decided to put fasting aside for today. But managed until 2pm, so a 16:8! Feeling much better now food and medication has kicked in. Will see how I feel tomorrow and maybe try for another 16:8, but if I'm still feeling headachey I'll forget about FDs until Monday.

mickeymacca · 18/10/2018 16:24

Well done stir. FD going great 43 glad you're having a good one too. Have stuck to plan except someone has eaten all the babybels.. Suspect DD she's as obsessed as I am about them. So had a teeny tiny banana instead. Probs gonna bring dinner forward my 3 hours and eat my chilli in a bit then just herbal tea all evening for meSmile what's for dinner everyone?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/10/2018 16:54

Oh dear snail hope you feel better soon

Haha those fridge robbers mickey but 1 is never enough Smile

Think I'll be having some soup (again) or a mushroom omelette and salad, undecided at the moment.

Out with a friend tomorrow for a few Gin Wine Gin and a good old catch up so gonna aim for a very light day food wise in anticipation... can't wait. Not sure if the scales will shift for me tomorrow but I feel slimmer and my clothes are feeling quite loose this week so fingers crossed!! But if not I'm hoping not to get disheartened and just plough on with another week on mfp to break this plateau Smile

mickeymacca · 18/10/2018 17:39

Ooh enjoy your drinks 43🍾

Stircrazyschoolmum · 18/10/2018 18:43

Ouch! Poor you snail do you know what triggered it? I think I few of us have been reminded recently that fasting doesn’t work when poorly so you did completely the right thing.

mickey I might be wrong but my hunch is a banana is nutritionally better than a baby Bel? Lots of potassium and B vitamins! My family have this cute really bloody annoying habit of putting empty packets back in the cupboard or fridge (this never happens with broccoli!) I swear I could kill them at times. Grr!

43 surely the best NSV is looser clothes? :-) Are you taking measurements once a month? Have a fantastic catch up with your friend tomorrow night. Not sure how long it’s been but perhaps she will surprise you by noticing? Wear something slinky!!

Squid and prawn stir fry for tea here.. topped up with spring greens and a dash of sweet chilli sauce.. stuffed!

mickeymacca · 18/10/2018 18:52

Hiya stir yep expect you're right about the banana being better.... I used to do low carb high fat so sometimes it's a struggle to get out of those habits!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/10/2018 19:01

I know you are right stir but I'd take
cheese over a banana any day Smile

Well done on your fd... your dinner sounds delicious, I love squid... fd finished here too ( 529 cals), I opted for a mushroom omelette and salad.

My dh does that too and it drives me potty... especially if its an empty box of paracetamol when you have period pain Angry or that biscuit you've been saving yourself for Angry

BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2018 19:19

Putting back empty packets should be made a criminal offence 😡 !

I hope you feel better now, snail and you managed a good 16:8

Have you tried, as a precautionary measure, glugging a teasp Mamrite mid-morning and mid-afternoon on FDs ?
Even if you hate the taste, knock it back like medicine and chase it dwon with a glass of water
Could it help head off migraines ?

Mickey Your banana was fine - babybel sounds boring, imo

OP posts:
mickeymacca · 18/10/2018 21:18

Finished on 622 but I overestimated calories on my homemade chilli so I'm happy

BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2018 07:23

That's fine, mickey Well done on your FD

Good luck, Friday fasters 

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/10/2018 07:37

morning everyone, happy friday.

Well done on your fd mickey

Well, thanks to bcf's advice and hovering above (and religiously mfp-ing), I am please to report that I have at last broken through my plateau, actually, not just broken through but I lost 4lbs this week Shock i am so very very happy Smile

good luck friday fasters...

mickeymacca · 19/10/2018 09:00

Wow 43 that's fab!!!! You're gonna feel great when you go out tonight! Well done

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/10/2018 09:17

thanks mickey I hope so Smile

snailhunter · 19/10/2018 12:30

That's amazing 43, well done! I suggest a name change. How about 'fortyandfabasfuck'?

Thanks for the migraine commisserations! I get them semi-regularly and I'm sure they're hormonal: they only come around period time. I probably shouldn't have fasted yesterday because I was feeling a bit weird but sometimes it passes.

I always have my Marmite BCF! And most of the time with FDs, I really don't have a problem with them, but yesterday something was definitely off as I was finding it very, very hard by about noon. I should have just gone with my instincts. Well, no harm done, feeling much better today, and am going to enjoy some healthy NFDs and a ton of gardening, as it looks like the weather is going to be lovely.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/10/2018 12:48

Ha ha thanks snail my bmi is now 25.8 so still in the overweight category, so no name change just yet!! But soon hopefully!!!!

You definitely should trust your instinct snail but good to hear you are feeling better today Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2018 14:09

Wow, 43 Fab SV
You worked really hard for that

snail In your case, definitely don't fast unless you feel 100% OK
You are within healthy BMI, so no need to rush
You could even take the precaution of not fasting during the totm week each month, say for the leadup and the first few days

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 20/10/2018 08:17

Morning everyone Smile

Stir - well done surviving tough mudder!

43 - wow! Fantastic SV!!

Snail - glad your meds kicked in and you feel better. I also suffer from hormonal migraines - if I'm going to get one, it's generally at the end of my totm and if I'm feeling a bit run down. Fortunately, mine can be stopped in their tracks with paracetamol if I can take them during my first symptom.

Not a great week for me. Successful FD Monday but felt rotten on Tuesday with stomach bug type symptoms but no d&v. Not much appetite. Managed to get through work each day but in bed by 6pm each night. Feel ok this morning so going to try and straighten out my neglected house.

I have just checked my BMI and it's 32 (it originally said 37 but I'd got my height wrong!!!) so my goal is to get into the green zone - 20kg to lose.

cloudjumper · 20/10/2018 08:54

43 - that's awesome, I'm jealous! Well done! Hoping I'll start dropping pounds like you soon, it seems to be getting harder the older I get...

Snail hope you're better. Migraines are just hell, I used to suffer from them and they'd just knock me out for days.

Had a good week, with a a bit of a blib last night... I just seem to have fallen into a bag of nuts, no idea how that happened  Trying to not get too beat up about it - at least it wasn't carbs, just good fats, right?! Back on the wagon today, onwards and upwards.