Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 28/11/2018 11:35

I agree with goblin, it's lovely that so many people acknowledge you! Thank you everyone.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/11/2018 12:28

Congrats on your SV, Borris
and your 3-year jeans NSV - it's like getting new clothes for free 🙂

Congrats on your SV too, cheddar
Focus and you'll soon be in the 10 stone somethings

Well done on your FD, fleabag, harriet, bug, NotReally

Fleabag - I feel terrible calling you that ! 😢
Well done on your waist NSV - that's lost bodyfat

The scales sometimes lag behind, but stay focused and they'll catch up
Nobody knows your weight except you: people only see your shape - that you've lost inches and your clothes hang better

Congrats on your whoosh, harriet

That again illustrates that some folk do lose via whooshes, rather than linearly every week
So don't worry if nothing happens for a week or 2
Just stay patient and follow the WOE guidelines

Oh, poor boys It's so miserable for you to have to sit in wet clothes all day
I cycle to work, so usually carry waterproofs, but I always keep a full change at the office

On an FD, have hot Bovril if you have some handy - that's in one of my cupboards too; I've more personal kit than work stuff !
Also good are hot tea and coffee, preferably without milk or sugar - I went cold turkey one day and trained myself to drink them like this; it was surprisingly easy.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 28/11/2018 12:39

Well done on your FD too, goblin
It's excellent news that you feel calm and in the groove - that's a mood NSV
You are working on NFD habits and that should help you see your own SVs soon.

That DIY sounds like it should keep you happily occupied today, duck
Don't worry, an occasional junky meal won't hurt and now you can aim for a sensiblle week

Big work (divisional) Christmas meal out tonight, 5 courses !, so I'll miss my fav evening weight-lifting
I'll nip to the gym shortly for free weights

I had porridge for brunch and that's all until the meal
We'll be starting with mulled wine outside for 30 mins, so I didn't want an empty tum - and I'm going in my new fleece Nike trous with thick anorak & scarf etc !

OP posts:
Borris · 28/11/2018 13:01

Enjoy your 5 course meal bcf. I bet you’ll feel full after that!!!

Stircrazyschoolmum · 28/11/2018 14:00

Wow!

I disappear for a few days and there are SV and NSV all over the place.. well done everyone!!

Can I add one of my own? I treated myself to a new pair of fleecy lounging trousers in the Sweaty Betty Black Friday sale - still ridiculously expensive but it’s my Christmas present to myself.. the kids reckon I want tea towels.. Confused Anyway, I usually buy a medium in their trousers, but I had to buy an EXTRA SMALL!!! It’s really silly but it made me so happy! Grin Definitely an incentive not to put the weight back on!

harriet belated thank you’s for the squash recipe, it sounds yummy. Grin

FD today, just soup so far. I hope everyone else is getting on OK. Miserable weather outside.. hardly motivational!

Naughtysausage · 28/11/2018 16:14

Well done Stircrazy that's so satisfying (both the leggings size and buying something you actually like!)

Just popping in on day 2 of a b2b. Have eaten quite a bit of marmite off a spoon this afternoon. Nom.
Currently roasting butternut squash and shallots to have with quinoa and broccoli.

Hope everyone else has nice dinners to look forward to!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/11/2018 19:00

Ooh enjoy your meal bcf

Well done stir fab nsv Smile

Oh boys what a rotten start to the day, hope your day got better...

B2b day 1 finished on 623, I'm so hungry though but will manage with a cup of tea later. Well done on yours sausage hope your dinner is as tasty as it sounds.

HLBug · 28/11/2018 19:35

BCF I feel I need to pop on to tell you to be careful tonight as the last time I recall you going out for a Team meal you had that dreadful fall down the dark stairs. So - be careful!!

Congratulations to everyone who has had SVs, NSVs and whooshes recently - some good pre Christmas prep going on! I actually ended up losing weight over the Christmas period last year - it was like a magical dream! I thought I'd have to take the two weeks off but I ended up with a few FDs / Minis because I wanted to due to excess merriments on the other days. I actually had a brilliant FD on Boxing Day as I was so blooming full I couldn't eat any more!! Few turkey left overs for tea and that was all I needed Grin So, anyone panicking about Christmas, please don't worry - take each day as it comes.

Stircrazyschoolmum · 28/11/2018 21:00

Kitchen closing around 650 which I’m fine with as I’ve started switching to maintenance mode. Quick dog walk and off to bed before I start getting sweet tooth cravings. Ican have it tomorrow!

Have a great meal BCF. How has everyone else gotten on? Have you dried out yet boys?

BigChocFrenzy · 28/11/2018 21:51

< waddles back onto thread >

That was a lovely 5-course meal, with lovely company

  • but I am so full, I am just longing for a b2b, so that's Thur+Fri sorted It didn't feel Christmassy though; we all just chilled together

Thanks, bug The restaurant was ground floor and I know it v well - I often have lunch there - hence no mishaps
I did have to cycle 10 km home in pitch dark and heavy drizzle, so just as well that I rarely have a glass and today I didn't want any.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 28/11/2018 21:59

Well done on your FD, 43, stir

Have you finished FD2, sausage*
*
Fab NSV with the SX fleece jeans, stir
They sound gorgeous
< whispers: The best Christmas presents are from you to you, because noone else knows you as well >

bug My 1st Christmas on 5:2, as I as still in the weight loss phase, I decided to do ADF over the 3 week period before Xmas until the New Year.

As you found, it is actually a relief after a feast day to have a fast day, so I didn't find it difficult
I sts then - I'm maybe greedier than you, or just older ! - but normally I'd have put on a few lb feasting

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 29/11/2018 07:38

Glad you had a nice meal bcf
Wow bug you really must have been in the fasting zone to have lost over Xmas. ..

B2b day 2 and I've woken up v v hungry, on the train with a rather loud rumbly belly Blush gonna get a skinny latte once I get to work then a chicken salad for lunch, who knows what for dinner....

Who else is fasting with me and bcf today?

quackingduck222 · 29/11/2018 08:12

Cheddar - Well done on your SV. That’s a great loss in a month, I’m hoping next week you scales will start with a 10.

Thanks 43, it went pretty well. Lots of heavy lifting as I helped construct inbuilt wardrobes.

Fleabag- That’s really annoying with the scales but on the plus side loosing inches is fantastic.

Harriet - wow that’s a fantastic loss well done.

Boys - Oh what a terrible day for you. Hope you had a lovely bubble bath.

Cake - Well done especially with the awful weather it really does put a dampener on things. A mini sounds great if you can sneak one in at some point this week.

BCF - Hope you had a fabulous evening.

StirCrazy - fantastic NSV there 2 sizes is amazing.

Naughtysausage - Hope your FD went well yesterday.

Bug - That’s inspiring that you lost over Xmas. A Boxing Day fast is out of this world.

43 - Good luck for your 2nd day of B2B today.

I’m going to fast today, have my FD food in and hopefully be busy again.

Notreallyhappy · 29/11/2018 08:56

Mini FD for me today so I'm with you 43 .
Had some wine last night (2 x 175mls) & pasta, feeling bloated but keeping carbs low today should rectify that.
Keep safe today if your in the storm area x

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 29/11/2018 09:24

BCF, your meal last night sounds lush! And I'm totally with you on buying your own Christmas presents - I took delivery of a v festive green sparkly Whistles jumper yesterday, which I had been eyeing up for ages and then it was in the Black Friday sale with 30% off! It is nominally from DH except that I chose it, ordered it, tried it on and then hid it in the wardrobe so he can wrap it later.

Good luck today, duck, 43, BCF and anyone else - I'm fasting too.

Did you get all your room changing done, duck? Building wardrobes sounds like fun!

Bug, I am amazed at your willpower fasting on Boxing Day!

Stir, hooray for extra small trousers!! What dress size are you now - an 8?

I came in on 1730 yesterday, which I am pretty pleased with - Wednesdays are hard because I was waiting for DH to come back from a class so couldn't eat until 8.15. I just need to stick to TDEE over the weekend!

Boysmomma · 29/11/2018 10:13

Morning all! Kitchen closed at 691 yesterday, day 2 of b2b now today.

I dried out eventually although I went out to a Christmas concert last night so no bubble bath or warm fire! The concert was lovely and the cathedral is up a bit of a hill and a walk away so I at least got hat in

@BCF I need to look at a wet suit I'd say Grin Your dinner sounded lovely! Great company and a cycle after, definitely not traditional!

That's brilliant @Stir congrats! And a great FD to boot

@Naughty, I'll be honest the marmite would make em gaga, but the roast sounds AMAZING!

@43 great finish to the day, good luck for today!

@Bug that's wonderful, I have hope for this year Grin.....until I see the selection boxes the kids have Blush

I'll be joining you today @quacking and @Not!

That's great @Cheddar well done!

Good luck Thursday fasters!

loudhouse18 · 29/11/2018 10:50

Hi Everyone

Please can I join this thread/group? I posted the other day about Fasting and wanting to find others who also Fast but I posted it in AIBU until someone pointed me in the direction of this thread.

Been Fasting for about 3 weeks aiming for 20 hours Mon-Fri but around 14/16 hours at the weekend.

I weighed 12st 4lb on Day 1 and am currently 11st 11lb, however, my official weigh-in day is tomorrow.

I've read lots on Fasting (The Obesity Code, Ultimate Guide to Fasting, Dr Jason Fungs blogs/articles, watched lots of YouTube videos). I did try the 5:2 but for me personally I manage better Fasting for 18-22hours then eating my normal foods as opposed to restricting my calories to 500/600 for two days. I've been keeping a log since I started and my well-being has improved :-) I'm sleeping better, not perfect but theres definitely a noticeable difference. I'm less bloated, I feel lighter, I feel less sluggish. I usually break my Fast around 2-3pm with veg/protein then eat my tea around 6pm-7pmish then start my Fast straight after my tea. First few days of starting it, hunger feelings were really prominent but have gradually decreased. They were really "there" from 10amish until approx 2.30pmish which I found a coincidence as this is when I would normally eat my breakfast and lunch between.

All going well except this week is my due on week and I'm finding it tougher to not eat for my normal 20-22hours - does anyone else experience this or is it just in my head? I'm still fasting because breaking my fast around 14-17 hours and I just want to EAT crisps, nuts, bread etc...

Thanks for reading!
:-)

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 29/11/2018 12:27

welcome loud and well done on your weight loss so far, that's great!!!
TOTM is a killer, I struggle around this time also (as do many others) I don't have any advice really, just stay strong and do what you have been doing, can you build some nuts into your meals so that you have them as part of your meal and not snack??

BigChocFrenzy · 29/11/2018 12:44

Welcome, loud 🙂
and well done on your SV

Yes, everyone gets the munchies - especially for carby, fatty treats !- around totm
Also, the hormonal changes usually cause water retention, which can increase SV by 2-8 lb
However, this water would be released during the first / second fast after the end of totm

Currently, you have olenty of bodyfat stores to use for fuel during the long fasts.
However, I suggest gradually decreasing the weekday fasting period to 16-18 hrs.
This is because your current fasting period is rather long to do 5 x weekly - you may get stomach issues, or increased hunger.

Fasting is rather like HIIT, in that the right amount builds resilience & strength, but too much can lead to exhaustion and weakness

You could then space out your meals more during a 6-8 hour window, maybe upping the size of the small meal a little and reducing the size of the other.

OP posts:
Stircrazyschoolmum · 29/11/2018 12:52

Hi loud welcome to the board. I think each of us does it slightly differently but the trick is to find a method that’s SUSTAINABLE for you, it has to fit with your lifestyle. Well done so far and lovely to hear it’s having a positive impact on your well being.

bcf I’m in awe.. I’d struggle to ride a bike after one course let alone five! Glad you had a lovely time and totally agree on the Xmas pressie strategy!

boys I love candlelit concerts. I’m not a particularly religious person but they make me feel quite spiritual. Halo

cheddar I started off in July a generous 12 (basically a small 14 but I was too vain to buy any clothes that size!) Shock 8 kg later I’m a small 10 or an 8 depending on cut. Post kids I have become more ‘womanly’ in shape so the current ‘skinny’ cut jeans never fit properly on both waist and thigh. Angry Your sparkily jumper sounds lovely.. I love all the dark green tones around this year, very flattering! Like borris I’m dragging out jeans from 3 years ago and getting excited they fit, and I may have to join the sewing club to see if I can put darts or similar in the backs my workout tops.. they were too expensive to throw out!

Good luck with your fasts today 43 and bcf. Hope you are having a better day cake. Nearly got blown away here! xx

BigChocFrenzy · 29/11/2018 13:01

Good luck, duck, NotReally, Boys, cheddar, 43, loud and everyone else fasting

43 Hot Bovril (10 cals) can help that rumbling tummy to feel fuller

Excellent present strategy, cheddar Now you have at least one perfect present to unwrap on Christmas Day
instead of something that glows in the dark, itches madly and has arm length to fit an orangutan

Well done on keeping control of yourtricky Wednesday NFD

Boys better not mention that wetsuit too loudly, or you know what you'll be unwrapping !

NotReally That mini should help, especially lower carb
It's a useful tool to alternate high carb days with medium or lower carb ones - it's called "carb-cycling"

Wow, duck building those wardrobes sounds fun & a good strength workout
With your sewing, you have a lot of useful skills now

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/11/2018 13:06

Well done on all your clothes NSVs, stir
Now you can wear your stylish favourites again

Yes, 5:2 may be cheaper as regards food, but the need for smaller clothes can mount up !
Joining duck with the sewing could be fun - and save money
You can swap useful tips - darts sound hard to get right

OP posts:
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 29/11/2018 14:53

I'm feeling really swimmy and dizzy today - have had 3 cups of tea with semi-skimmed milk and that's it. What can I have that's a) under 100 calories and b) available in the Costa opposite my office? They might have bananas, but they don't always.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 29/11/2018 18:37

Oops too late to help but hope you got to eat something and feelet less dizzy...

B2b done thank f**k today has been v v hard, the planned night put tomorrow has got me through it but I feel bloated and painfully sore in my tummy Sad hoping it'll ease by the morning.

How have you got on not boys* bcf and any other fasters? Planning an extra early night tonight after a bit of preening in anticipation of tomorrow Grin

emcla · 29/11/2018 19:10

Hi all. I’ve done 5 2 previously and lost weight. However I find it constipating. I have about 3/4 of a stone to lose. Hope to start tomorrow. Had my dinner at 1730 tonight. Would love this weight to be off by new year. Any tips for a quick fix welcome.