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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Borris · 27/11/2018 18:44

Wow some great SVs here.
I have to say that while annoying, having clothes that are now too big is a nice problem to have Smile

I’m tucking into my fd2 meal of veg stir fry with rice noodles which is very nice. Should have enough left for a yoghurt too

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 27/11/2018 18:58

Oooh, yoghurt is a good idea! Eaten cod and broccoli and still have 150 calories left.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 27/11/2018 20:15

Kitchen closed on 507.

Borris · 27/11/2018 20:31

Very good cheddar. I’m going to have a cup of tea in a minute and call it a day

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2018 21:08

Well done on your FDs, cheddar, Borris
< admires cheddar's stylish preen >

You can decide what to do with your old clothes, borris
Donate, eBay ...
If you get rid of them all, then you never dare return to your old WOE, or you'd have to go outside naked 😳

OP posts:
Fleabag123 · 27/11/2018 21:30

Please can someone talk me through b2bs? Do you have more cals on the second day?

Finishing up at 515 here. Might just go to bed!

harriethoyle · 27/11/2018 21:49

b2b day has finished on 709. Not too shabby! Next FD is Sunday I think, going to try and fit in a third a week if I can in the period til 14th Dec...

harriethoyle · 27/11/2018 21:50

@fleabag, you have 650 on each day, but if you want you can do 500 and 800 - I did 500 odd yesterday and saved my 150 extra for today so I could have a piece of toast this morning. Makes it MUCH more doable and doesn't effect the weight loss

harriethoyle · 27/11/2018 21:51

fist bump @borris and @cheddar!

HLBug · 27/11/2018 21:54

FD for me finishing on about 640 calories. I've done a 13 hour work day today, across two different cities, so it's really not been hard as I've been constantly on the go! Two coffees for the train journeys and then a filled focaccia grabbed from a museum cafe circa 4pm. Done.

Fleabag123 · 27/11/2018 22:04

Aha, thanks @harriet.

Think I will stick to separate FDs this week as that fits with social plans but may try b2b next week

Borris · 27/11/2018 22:35

Harriet I’m going to try an extra fd or poss an 800 cal day between now and Christmas. I’ve done so well I can’t bear to undo the hard work. Can get in some jeans that I found tonight when hiding some presents. I’ve not worn them for 3 years! I think I’m a stone down from when I started 6 months or so ago. And I’ve not really felt like I’m dieting as I’ve still had pudding when gone out for dinner, a glass of wine here and a biscuit thereSmile

Notreallyhappy · 28/11/2018 06:46

Morning. Well done on fd everyone.
515 fleabag I don't think I'll ever get that low amazing effort.
borris love hearing of your SV of your stone in 6 months..it's great when the plan comes together & your jeans fit.
Finished yesterday on 705...going to throw in a mini on Thursday to keep up the good work .

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/11/2018 07:07

Well done everyone on the fds yesterday, mine was a big fat fail as woke up feeling ropey and couldn't face it. Feeling okay today so attempting a b2b as no other days left in the week!

borris I'm the same I've now got bagfulls of clothes I no longer fit into which is great, but expensive replacing them!! Need to follow quackings lead and alter them Smile

quackingduck222 · 28/11/2018 07:52

Cheddar - I hope your FD went well yesterday. Your plan for the week sounds great.

Pop - well done on the SV, look after yourself. Oh gosh I bet that coat you made did take forever.

Fleabag - I hope you had a lovely birthday. Hope your FD went well.

Moes - Lovely to heat you had a great time. Stick with it this week and see what happens a good solid FD can undo most damage.

NotReally - I hope your 2nd FD went smoothly aswell. Good luck if you add a mini in, do let us know how you get on this week.

Borris - How did your 2nd FD go?

Fleabag - 650 cals per day on a B2B but quite often posters go in for there first FD at 500 then perhaps do a impromptu 2nd FD the day after so add in the extra calorie allowance the next day.

Bug - Well done on your FD too, wow loads of excellent fasting going on yesterday.

Borris - fab jeans victory, Are you planning to fast over Xmas? I didn’t last year, took 2 weeks off but I do intend to this year.

43 - Good luck for your B2B.

Very happy with my SV today, I had a large meal of crap last night and I’ve STS, definitely should of gained so will not be cocky with it and will behave today. Busy day ahead doing some DIY changing rooms style so no room for fridge raiding.

Good luck to all the fasters today.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 28/11/2018 08:16

Well done, Fleabag, Borris, NotReally, Harriet and Bug!

Yay for a stone down, Borris!

43, good luck with your b2b!

Changing rooms DIY sounds fun, duck - we will require before and after pics!

SV: down 1.6lbs since last weigh in, and 1.2lbs net. MFP tells me that I’ve lost 4.8lbs this month, which I am happy with! 11 stone 1.2 - really want this last pound and a bit to bugger off so I can see a 10 on the scales!

I think I’m going to have to have a week off at Christmas - will be staying with various relatives and the booze and mince pies will be flowing! I will just have to go running with my sister and step-mum to try to burn some off.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/11/2018 08:34

good luck with the decorating quacking that will definitely keep you busy... well done on the STS [smile[

Well done on the SV cheddar that's fab and you will soon be in the 10s Smile yay....

Fleabag123 · 28/11/2018 08:36

This is such a lovely group! Well done everyone for successful fasts and B2Bs yesterday

Weighed in this morning and lost..... precisely nothing Confused . On the plus side my waist measurement is down and tummy feels flatter.

Well done for the SVs, very inspiring Flowers

harriethoyle · 28/11/2018 08:56

Can't remember who was waiting for a whoosh - @fortythree maybe? But having lost NOWT last week, I've dropped from 76 (there'll be some bloat in there) to 73.8kg this week - back to my lowest weight for the year! So hang on in there...

I'm going to fast on Sunday I think, then Mon, Weds and Thurs next week, to keep it going.

Now. Excuse me. I'm off to eat ALL the breakfast! Grin

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 28/11/2018 09:26

Wow, harriet, that's great! Well done you! 2.2kg is nearly 5lbs - that's amazing in one week! Enjoy all the breakfast.

Fleabag, waist measurement reducing is brilliant too - and very noticeable.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/11/2018 10:12

wowee harriet that is amazing!! well done Grin you are going to fast 4 times next week? so IF?? enjoy the breakfast

fleabag don't worry about the scales, you are obviously loosing fat and inches, well done

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/11/2018 10:13

sorry I meant ADF and not IF ....

Boysmomma · 28/11/2018 10:19

Morning all! FD today, day one of b2b and I'm really not feeling it.

The weather is awful, the storm has well and truly taken hold and I got soaked by a car this morning and my pants, shoes and socks are drenched, so I'm sitting behind my desk hoping no one asks me to move Sad If anyone sees a CF thread later about the gross woman with no shoes or socks on in the office stinking up the gaff...it's me

I want to hibernate with a tub of Ben & Jerry's next to a roaring fire, maybe while in a giant bubble bath.......and one of the magic mike dancers as my butler. I don't ask for much Grin

Onward and downwards! Well done on everyone's FD and SV (I know I'll miss people Blush)

@Pop I hope you're feeling better and are taking it easy!

Happy birthday @Flea, STS is a great plus, especially if you're losing the bloat

@MOES chocolate cake is always worth being bold for, great plan to STS

Hope your whoosh comes soon @cake

@quacking has the right idea with the sewing @Borris I do have some nice bits, if only they were a bit tighter! DIY as the new HIIT, let us know how you get on Grin

@Cheddar congrats on your SV that's brilliant!

@Harriet that's amazing! Congratulations! Big breakfast well deserved Grin

Good luck Wednesday fasters!

harriethoyle · 28/11/2018 10:41

I'm going to do two sets of b2b from Sunday to Friday @fortythree. Work is so horrendous from Sunday onwards for two weeks that I might as well live off low cal ready meals and get some benefit from the horror!

cakegoblin · 28/11/2018 10:55

Hi everyone - 750 yesterday due to small glass of white wine but given the weather etc I am pretty pleased with that. May try an extra mini tomorrow actually as you suggested a while back BCF as I am now feeling calm and in control post-holiday. No whoosh yet but I can wait now I know how well this works for me! And apparently Harriet Wink

Can I just say huge thanks to those of you who give us all a lovely little shout-out each in your posts! I will probably inadvertently leave someone out here but Boys, Quacking, Forty, Bug, Borris and of course BCF and everyone else who takes the time when they can, it makes such a difference to a fasting day. I am on my phone (and in a rush) most of the time and it's hard to check back to everyone's names, so I don't get to do it as often as I would like, but I SO appreciate it, thank you!