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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
BigChocFrenzy · 20/11/2018 15:18

Well done on your FDs yesterday, Borris, MrJolly

Boys You had a healthy mini yesterday and did really well when you were hungry
If you nail the FD today, definitely call that your b2b

Good luck, MOE
You may be finding FDs too restrictive if you were dieting before 5:2 as well, or too much contrast FD vs NFD

If you are struggling atm, I suggest next week you could try the system of 3 mini-FDs (sub-1000) instead

  • it gives about the same loss as 5:2

So Mon+Wed+Fri MiniFDs

Same rules on miniFDs as FDs: No alcohol, no junk - no cake, biscuits, choc, sweets etc

OP posts:
Larasshadow · 20/11/2018 16:27

Thanks to those who replied about the binging on NFD. I'm definetly trying harder to control myself this week.

Fasting today, not having a great day but managed to not resort to food to make myself better. (My car broke down so had to cycle to work, I guess the exercise helps even though it was only around 10 minutes on the bike.. also have school run in the rain to deal with, I know other people manage but I've always just jumped in the car!)

BigChocFrenzy · 20/11/2018 16:49

I cycle 8 km to work and 8 km back every day.
I have a very easy route which I quite enjoy, loosens me up.

(I've no choice though - I'm visually handicapped)

OP posts:
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 20/11/2018 17:01

Fasting today too! Good luck, everyone!

I have been v disorganised and forgot that I'm supposed to be out on Thursday, which is my usual second FD. I think the 2nd FD will have to be Fri, which I don't like doing because I'm at home with the kids making them lunch etc. Oh well! I'd rather not do a B2B tomorrow because I've got a class at 7.15 and I won't get dinner until 8.30 - don't think I can manage that on a FD!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/11/2018 18:44

Good luck, cheddar !

OP posts:
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 20/11/2018 21:24

Kitchen closing on 490 calories. Rainbow trout, asparagus and broccoli, plus a slice of bread and butter. Mmm.

harriethoyle · 20/11/2018 21:28

Delicious @cheddar!

I'm celebrating a booze-free NFD which came in 50 calories below my daily target (TDEE-10%) after I cried off planned curry and quiz night and had a fishcake and greens instead. Feeling strong!

HLBug · 20/11/2018 22:16

Finishing up on 570 ish today. This may be my only FD this week unless I show some serious restraint on Friday or Saturday and do another one then. Well done to the other casters today.

HLBug · 20/11/2018 22:17

*Fasters!! Doh!

Borris · 20/11/2018 22:29

Clocking in here too. Survived FD2. Was one of the easier ones. There’s really no rhyme or reason as to when they are tough or not.

Going to a Christmas light switch on tomorrow (I know it’s too early but what can you do when thats the day your town chooses Confused). So need to avoid Christmas goodies. We will have tea before we go which should help reduce temptation.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/11/2018 23:42

Well done, cheddar, bug, borris

And well done on an excellent NFD, Harriet
Cutting out the booze leaves more calories available for delicious food

OP posts:
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 21/11/2018 06:40

Actually slightly up on the scales this morning, sigh...I do feel v bloated, though. Grr!

Larasshadow · 21/11/2018 07:47

Don't worry about that @Cheddar , I'm often heavier after a fast day. I'm sure someone must be able to explain why as I have no idea.

Finished yesterday on 668 calories.

Wednesday's are my day of the week where I'm so busy I don't have too much time to eat (but need to eat for energy for the job I do) so often finish under TDEE. No unnecessary snacks for me today.

Borris · 21/11/2018 07:58

I’m only down 0.1kg cheddar. I think totm is lurking though so hoping thats why and that I get a drop next week when it’s gonw

quackingduck222 · 21/11/2018 08:12

Flebag - Yes onwards and downwards, just remember stick with this group and you won’t see that weight on the scales again. Best of luck.

StirCrazy - I hope you had a good day yesterday and you warmed up.

Boys - 809cals, see I would be inclined to call that a FD rather than a mini. Your habits really must be changing if others are noticing. That’s bloody fantastic.

Boys - I think Asda ready meals they do some healthy ones in the freezer section are quite low, think they are 400-450 tho. I’ve had a few in the past the meat & sauce based ones and added a cauli rice packet. Makes a big meal.

Moes - Really hoping you had a great day yesterday. If your struggling do try and post I found on days I was struggling it gave me the kick I needed to see it through.

NotReally - Well done on your FD.

Lara - Hope your FD went well in the end despite your testing day.

Cheddar - Hope your Friday FD works out for you. Are you approaching TOTM?

Harriet- Well done on your NFD.

Borris - Well done on your B2B. Yes a nice hot cup of tea should do the trick nicely.

I’m going in for a FD today, I’m learning how to sew and use my sewing machine so should keep me busy for a while as I have a whole tubs worth of clothes that need altering.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 21/11/2018 08:43

My cycle is really irregular so it could be - I signed up to the Natural Cycles app at one point and abandoned it when I ranged from 28 days to 35. Hmm I'm usually closer to 35 but last month it was 28, so who knows!

Fleabag123 · 21/11/2018 08:52

Thanks quacking, have fun sewing - it’s my favourite hobby! Definitely a good distraction

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2018 08:54

Don't worry, cheddar
If you've been roughly maintaining on the 5 NFDs, then that's just a blip

Borris If totm is near, you may already have some retained water
Stay focused on NFDs, avoid the totm munchies and the FD after the end of totm should release the excess water

Well done, Lara
A few people are heavier after an FD because they still have some undigested food from the previous NFD,
especially if they tend to eat more / later on the NFD before

It may be that with the lower volume of food on an FD, they don't have a dump, or not enough
These folk normally see a loss the morning after the following NFD.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2018 08:55

Sounds an absorbing and useful hobby, duck

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 21/11/2018 09:51

wow this thread is moving quick :) will go back and have a read but well done on all the SVs and NSVs and successful FDs

I've had 2 okayish NFDs and attempting FD#1 today although all i want is 2 big slices of toast with peanut butter on it - hmmmpppfff

Larasshadow · 21/11/2018 10:08

@forty , see one of the best things about this diet is you can eat your toast and peanut butter tomorrow! That's how I think to get me through fast days lol

Boysmomma · 21/11/2018 10:23

@MrJolly I like to do various stir frys and if I'm stuck I like the M&S range. I love to use different spices and herbs to get the falvour in. Spiced chickpeas are my favourite!

@MOES how did your FD go? I'm a regualr feature in those vicious cylces, it's hard when you get stuck in a rut. Just shout, we've all been there! (and mostly still there)

Thanks @Big I had a big dinner planned for last night so I'll stick with the FD today as well. If I start giving myself 'excuses' not to do it I have too little self control to not fall back into bad habits! I think I need to get back cycling, boys love it, silly for me not to join in!

@Lara wow, that now would have sent me over the edge, well done for turning it around that's a great FD!

@cheddar that's a brilliant FD well done! Also the dinner sounded delicious, off to the market today. It'll flush out!

Well done @harriet and @Bug!

@Borris our lights went on last weekend, there was war because the council missed one of the side streets in teh city, we've not much to be doing around here Grin congrats on your SV

Thanks @quacking, feeling fierce smug with myself today. Oh I'd love to learn how to sew, I've tried a few times! Good luck!

@43 that sounds so good, and it's now all I can think about!

Kitchen close last night at 628, lunch ready and dinner ready for tonight!

Good luck everyone!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2018 11:05

43 Chant the 5:2 FD mantra:

"Î can have it tomorrow"

Well done on your FD, boys
You did really well to power through

Cycling with your lads sounds brilliant - you'll get fitter and have more energy

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 21/11/2018 11:39

you are right lara and bcf the thing is I don't really ever eat breakfasts at all so I know for a fact come tomorrow I won't bloody want it! Sorry for planting that in your head boys

Just skimmed the last couple of pages, wow to wedding weight stir and some absolutely fab SVs everyone Smile I'm another that absolutely freezes on FDs, I've a blanket on as we speak!!! brrrrrr

your dinner sounds delicious cheddar love trout.
quacking sorry to hear you've been stressed, the sewing sounds good though, I'd love to take up something like that, what's your first project??

Nothing except tea so far, not sure about lunch, i'm thinking something warm though...

Notreallyhappy · 21/11/2018 12:11

Ooo peanut butter on toast, there's a thought....
Is it just me or are others the same, you spend 2 day on minimal nutrition and can't even think what to eat for brunch..
Looks like all good on the fd front, everyone doing well..
B2b done finished at 670 It was tough at the end but did refuse wine, leaving it in the shop is the trick.