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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 16/11/2018 10:06

Total loss after 2 fast days this week: 0.8lb. Sigh. Still, last week was 1.6lbs.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/11/2018 10:14

don't be disheartened cheddar that's nearly 2.5lb in 2 weeks which is not bad, have you much to lose? TOTM approaching?? you should still celebrate your SV Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2018 10:56

Well done on your SV, cheddar
The longterm average on 5:2 is 1 lb weekly for most folk, so you were above average for that 2 week period

Your body isn't a computer to lose the same each week; it'll be more some weeks, less others, even without you doing anything differently
In fact, some people naturally seem to lose in fits and starts - nothing for a week or 2, then a big loss, then nothing

OP posts:
PopGoesTheWeaz · 16/11/2018 12:05

borris that sometimes happens with me and I get inexplicably and over the top excited about it. Thanks for sharing as I'm so happy to know there are others out there!

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 17/11/2018 09:39

43, I’ve got 1 stone 5 lb to lose to be a healthy BMI (which is 9 stone 11 for me). I’d like to reach 9 stone - at a lb a week that’s going to be around June! But if that’s what it’s going to be then so be it - I just need to accept that and stop hoping to have lost it all by Christmas. Grin

harriethoyle · 17/11/2018 10:03

Morning all! I've lost my mind and am attempting a Saturday fast day Hmm Tuna sandwich for lunch and ready meal for tea. No plans apart from a house viewing, supermarket shop and a dog walk so I thought I might as well fit one in! Let's see...

BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2018 11:55

Good luck, harriet
A Saturday FD is often a good boost, because it significantly shortens the weekend indulgence

You're right, cheddar
That extra weight didn't all happen within 6 weeks, so it's not going to go away before XMas either

Settle in for the longer haul of a few months more,
focus and develop permanent good habits, such as eating within TDEE, NO snacking, NHS limits
Then you'll lose the weight - and never have to lose it again !

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 17/11/2018 12:57

Exactly my thoughts @bigchoc, also means I won't be hungover and falling face first into a fry up tomorrow morning!! On 203 after lunch and going to pop out with the doggies in half an hour... Not been as bad as I thought thus far!

visitorthedog · 17/11/2018 16:39

Hi everyone, I’m still here and going on week 2 for me. I’ve had my two fast days already and just trying to get through the weekend at TDEE - ready meals are featuring to get me past the rest of my family having takeaways.

In some bizarre miracle though, I have lost 5lbs since I started?!! I think it’s likely aided by weighing at my very heaviest and having got to the other side of TOTM, but still, not complaining!

Hope everybody has a good weekend!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2018 19:18

Well done on your SV, visitor
Good start

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 17/11/2018 19:44

568 calories at the finish. Saturday fasts are HARD Confused

harriethoyle · 17/11/2018 19:45

5lb is brilliant @visitor - nearly half a stone!!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2018 23:19

Very well done on your Saturday FD, harriet

I'm fasting tomorrow !

OP posts:
Borris · 17/11/2018 23:39

Well done Harriet and great Sv visitor.

I have definitely had a bad nfd culminating in fish and chips from the chippy (which were delicious and my first since starting 5:2).

Tomorrow planning a better nfd and then b2b mon and tues.

Larasshadow · 18/11/2018 10:08

Anyone struggle to not binge on non fast days? I just feel like I need to eat everything in sight Blush still losing weight though at around 1lb a week. Just wish I could control myself more lol.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/11/2018 11:16

Well done on your SV, Lara
That's a decent rate of loss
BUT
to avoid regain afterwards, you need to either get NFDs under control, or coninue with 2FDs in maintenance

Bingeing can happen if you have been dieting / trying to diet for years and have been depriving yourself,
because you can now eat "normally" on NFDs.
This sometimes corrects itself, but sometimes it's necessary to work on it

In 5:2, I always recommend people use NFDs as a way of retraining their "normal" eating,
because these are intended to be maintenance days

Important for this is to keep 5:2 healthy habitson NFDs, even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits, NEVER snack / graze between meals,
sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks

OP posts:
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 18/11/2018 13:38

Wow, 5lbs is awesome, Visitor!

Lara, yes to struggling not to binge! Or perhaps binge is a bit strong, because I am better than I was. However, if I eat “normally” without calorie counting I tend to come in at about 2000 calories, when my TDEE is 1700. And that’s not taking into account some days that are very high in calories - such as nights out where the alcohol racks up. It’s a marathon not a sprint - I am gradually becoming more mindful about what goes into my mouth on NFDs. Trying to reset my tummy to a “normal” of 1700!

Notreallyhappy · 19/11/2018 07:56

Morning....checking in after weekend away...been alcohol naughty but nice to be with hubby without his laptop and work phone.
1st FD today might do b2b see how many I end up on today x

harriethoyle · 19/11/2018 09:24

Morning fasters - @notreally I'm joining you on my first FD of the week.

Forgot to weigh myself this morning which is annoying so I'll have to take Sunday's post fast weight at this week's starting point.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2018 09:55

Morning all 🙂
I'm fasting too

Good luck to all the Monday fasters !

OP posts:
MOES2018 · 19/11/2018 10:16

Good morning everyone.
So last week worked out really well and I completed two FD. Weighed in in Friday morning at 170 which was a loss of 5 pounds!!! So thrilled.
Now for the bad news....I had a crazy weekend eating and drinking. Oh I ate with no eye on TDEE at all. So today to my absolute horror, scales are at 177. A gain of 7 since Friday morning.
Right...I'm drawing a line under it. I am fasting today and Thursday and will try a mini on Wednesday. I'm away on a girls shopping weekend from Friday to Sunday but I won't be drinking alcohol so hopefully I'll have more self control and won't have the crazy hangover munchies.
This post is turning into a moan! I am annoyed with myself....Hopefully a good FD today will knock me back into shape. Best of luck everyone. Here's hoping for a good week!!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/11/2018 10:23

morning everyone, and cheddar slow and steady and you will get there and will have retrained your eating habits in that time...

well done on your weekend FD harriet

wow visitor 5lbs is a fantastic SV Smile

lara if you read any of the threads you'll see that quite a lot struggle with NFDs, sometimes the FDs are so much easier!!! But stick with it, use MFP to plan ahead and you'll have more good NFDs than bad. Also, follow the advice from bcf

Had an okay weekend, a bit too much alcohol and totm arrived on sat morning Sad so didn't bother weighing myself, NFD today, think I might fast weds and fri this week

Good luck all your Monday fasters

purplefig · 19/11/2018 10:45

First week done and I'm down from 135 to 133.2. Current goal is 125. I'm doing a FD today and Thursday. Plan is to fast until dinner time, then have a veg and tofu stir fry. I've found not eating all day way easier than having tiny bits of food.

purplefig · 19/11/2018 10:48

Also! I tried to use MFP and stick to TDEE on NFDs last week, but I could feel disordered habits creeping back in so I stopped it. The whole reason I like 5:2 is the fact that on NFDs I don't pay attention to weight loss. I just make sure I get enough nutrients, which I do by checking off the Dr. Greger's Daily Dozen checklist on my phone.

Boysmomma · 19/11/2018 11:45

Morning fasters! I'm jumping in with you today Grin

TOTM finished yesterday so I'm hoping a b2b will flush off the water weight (and 2 dairy milks, hot chocolate, and chocolate mousse Blush)

Weigh in day is next week so best behavior until then.

Good luck!