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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
HLBug · 14/11/2018 21:12

FD for me today - closing on about 750 cals. First week in ageees I've done two good FDs so woohoo to that. "Don't blow it on NFDs" definitely needs to be my mantra at the moment too Blush

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2018 23:13

Well done on your FD, yesterday, sausage
and your NFD, Drogon That's fine

By popular demand, started by pop, I'll work something about NFDs into next thread title

Well done on today's FDs, 43, Drogon, Bug
and your NFD, cheddar - right on the TDEE nose. Now do the same next time and make it a habit ... and you'll be sailing on your way to goal

I hope the b2b finished OK today, sausage

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/11/2018 07:56

well done cheddar drogon and bug Smile How did you get on sausage

I think I might be doing an impromptu b2b today as plans have changed for friday which will make fasting difficult. I know you get 650cals on b2b but as I only had 500 yesterday does that mean I can use that 'extra' 150cals as a buffer if i need them??

Good luck thursday fasters Grin wish me luck for only my 3rd ever b2b!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2018 10:13

43 You can - and imo should - have 800 cals today
Good luck on your b2b !

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/11/2018 11:03

thanks bcf that's exactly what I wanted to hear Grin

Naughtysausage · 15/11/2018 13:21

Yesterdays FD went really well too! I feel nicely back in the swing. Even baked chocolate chip shortbread last night and resisted. (Did have one with breakfast though!)

Well done on excellent FD 43 and drogon and a good NFD Cheddar. It's always nice to see how other people are doing!

Am planning salmon and roast veg for dinner tonight. I go through phases with food and roast veg with feta is the current favourite.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/11/2018 14:38

well done sausage and managing to resist baked goods on a FD - you get to shine your Halo

mmm, roasted veg with feta, i went through a phase in the summer of having this with chicken or fish, totally delicious, thanks for the reminder!!!

Half way through b2b and doing okay, had big soup (only 200cals) with 100g of chicken stirred through for lunch, not sure yet what to have for dinner but have around 440 cals to play with.... might have a look at a ready meal from M&S

How's everyone else doing today??

BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2018 14:45

Well done yesterday, sausage
You're back in the fasting swing

You're doing well, 43

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 15/11/2018 14:59

Hello everyone!! Back from thoroughly indulgent mini break and fasting today and contemplating squeezing a Saturday fast in.... have I totally lost my marbles?!

Tuna wholemeal thin for 203 calorie lunch and weightwatchers ready meal for tea Grin

Borris · 15/11/2018 15:14

Hope you’ve enjoyed it Harriet. I don’t find the weight watchers ready meals too bad.

Saturday FDs are ok so long as you are busy - and obv aren’t invited out with friends etc

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/11/2018 17:24

Well done for getting straight back into it harriet

I've treated myself to a count on us fish pie from m&s, I hope it's tasty. ... gonna have some carrots with it and then have enough for a yogurt afterwards - this will bring me in at 808cals :-)

harriethoyle · 15/11/2018 18:18

My gbf rang and said did I want to go out for tea Sad I flexed my willpower and explained I was fasting and so he's coming over later for a cup of herbal tea. I feel VIRTUOUS! Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/11/2018 18:37

Get shining your Halo also Harriet Grin
What's a gbf?

Fish pie was surprisingly tasty for the calories, feeling quite satisfied on 800cals. Going to paint my toenails later to distract me...

harriethoyle · 15/11/2018 18:45

Gay Best Friend Grin @fortythree

BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2018 19:09

I love the way you young'uns keep me up to date with the language 🙂

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2018 19:11

Very virtuous, converting the invitation to herbal tea 😇
Your gbf sounds lovely & supportive

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/11/2018 19:39

Aha... p.s. thanks for the advice on my other thread harriet Smile

Borris · 15/11/2018 20:36

That is seriously impressive Harriet!

My nfd has just about come in on tdee. Poss v slightly over. Annoyed as dd pestered for mince pies is bought a 6pack for pudding over the next few days. Ate mine and half of hers as she didn’t like it Hmm. Am seriously considering taking them into work to put by the kettle as that way they’re out the house and I won’t munch through them

harriethoyle · 15/11/2018 20:47

@borris i cannot have delicious snacks in the house. I find the temptation too much!! Taking them to the work kettle is an excellent plan Brew

harriethoyle · 15/11/2018 20:48

@fortythree you're very welcome x

Borris · 15/11/2018 21:29

Forgot to show off my new found super power. I wanted 30g cheddar grated onto my spag bol. Cut a chunk, weighed it - spot on 30g! Felt stupidly excited Grin

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 15/11/2018 21:34

Please don’t mention mince pies - last year I ate two mince pies a day for the entire month of December. Warmed in the oven with cream. Blush I have been studiously ignoring them so far this year!

FD today coming in at 451! Halo Half a steak plus fried broccoli, and 4 cups of tea.

elspethmcgillicuddy · 15/11/2018 21:40

Hello all! FD ending on 618 today. Slightly higher than planned but I ran 4 miles at lunchtime and did an hour of weights this evening so... meh.

I also ran 4 miles yesterday and did an hour of touch rugby. I did eat half a tub of halo top afterwards though BlushGrin

I had a really nice fast day dinner that was very quick and easy as I got in late for work. I cooked a leek and a courgette in fry light and then added one of those Tilda rice pouches and then chucked in an egg to make egg fried rice. It was massive and filling for 486 kcal. I'll definitely do that again.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2018 22:30

Well done, cheddar, espeth

A superpower is exciting to have, borris 💫

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/11/2018 06:22

That's some superpower borris
Well done elspeth and cheddar

Mmmm mince pies, I love mince pies Blush

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