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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/11/2018 21:59

《Waves》 at stir thank you for the lovely message, made me smile, you really are a lovely bunch nest of vipers eh Grin another good nfd today and 1st fd of the week tomorrow. Hope your family distractions are sorted soon Flowers

Well done borris and all the other Tues fasters, ready meal most definitely not a cop out on an fd

Aww of course you have to have birthday donut if birthday girl insists Grin just get straight back on it tomorrow. ..

cakegoblin · 13/11/2018 22:25

Hi everyone, how have your b2b's gone? Well done Borris you must be feeling pleased with that. I could have done with a ready meal today but don't really want the kids to ask questions about diets yet so wouldn't be able to get away with it.
Instead while I took kids to swimming, DH cooked dinner!!! And as this is a once-a-year event I didn't want to disappoint him, poor lamb, so I had some - but as I had not eaten anything more than milk in tea all day and I was careful not to go mad it's still a mini at around (best guess) 930cal. Amazing how these things stack up. Hope everyone else has done better than me.

Stircrazyschoolmum · 13/11/2018 22:28

43 I'm really confused..did i do or say something to upset you?

to everyone else.. hope its going ok..

cakegoblin · 13/11/2018 23:05

No Stir she is referencing people who often refer to Mumsnet as 'a nest of vipers' in the press etc, and pointing out that the loveliness and supportiveness on this thread, especially your post, definitely shows that that is not the case here! don't worry x

PopGoesTheWeaz · 13/11/2018 23:19

Had a tasty turkey mince and cabbage stir fry with no-cal noodles which comes in at around 350 calories (high estimate) so back on track. B2B saved. Phew.

Borris · 13/11/2018 23:23

What are no cal noodles??!!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2018 00:55

Well done on your 1st FD back,MOE
and great SV to start

Stir My knicks are all from M&S too
Hint Tell DH where to get your Xmas present

Don't worry, 43 was just saying how supportive it is here, in contrast to the "nest of vipers" rep that MN often has.

Well done on a mini, goblin
Good compromise with not discouraging that once-a-year dinner from DH !
If it worries you, squeeze in another mini - not an extra FD - later this week

Well done on nailing your b2b, pop
You worked really hard to stick to that

Borris No-cal noodles - well they're about 10 cals for a good portion - are those Japanese fake noodles / rice / pasta made from konjak / yam
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirataki_noodles

imo, they taste like I imagine fish snot, but many folk love them, so why not try and see

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2018 00:57

Well done on your NFD, 43
Sounds like you're really working at making those good habits permanent

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/11/2018 06:52

Oops sorry stir.... as cake and bcf explained it is well known slur on MN, usually by people who have never felt the support from MN Smile I was trying (and failing) to be witty Grin

Well done cake and pop but have to agree those no cal noodles are rank, I can't get past the fishy smell Envy

Notreallyhappy · 14/11/2018 07:14

Grinbunch of vipers... it's like being with your sisters or besties...harsh but honest but always there if you need them.

SV today..must have been holding some fluid as scales are 6lb down since Monday..
Roll on next week FDs but before I've got a few days in Spain with th OH. I'll try to be good but no promises x

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/11/2018 07:17

Wow notreally that's a bloody amazing sv! Enjoy your time away and just try to make sensible-ish choices and get straight back in it when you get back...

Borris · 14/11/2018 08:03

I’m down 0.5kg from last weeks gain. Another 0.5 to be back on track. It seems one weekend of excess = 2 weeks payback

Borris · 14/11/2018 08:03

Wow not really. That’s great!

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 14/11/2018 09:11

6lb down, notreally?? Wow! Envy Well done you!

I am 0.4lb down after yesterday's fast day. Came in at 508 calories. My mantra today is DO NOT BLOW IT ON NFDs.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/11/2018 09:46

well done on your SVs borris and cheddar
Good luck today, I find NFDs more difficult than FDs some weeks, be strong cheddar !

Stircrazyschoolmum · 14/11/2018 10:25

Ha! Feeling like a complete twit for not reading your post properly 43 that will teach me to read and run late at night when tired! Sisterhood over vipers any day! Grin

notreally that’s an incredible SV... well done you!

borris I know what you mean.. one weekend of decadence and three steps backwards, I take consolation from the knowledge that at least I’ve found a way to get back on track.. before I was getting steadily larger!

cheddar you got this.. don’t lose your well deserved SV. Have a food plan for today and use MFP if need be to keep you on track.

FD for me.. only tea so far.. going to try and stay busy and save all my calories for a healthy chilli tonight. Stay strong 43 and hello to anyone else joining us. x

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2018 10:52

Congrats on your SV, Notreally
Sometimes loss comes with a whoosh after a quiet period

A plausible theory is that before, you had lost fat, but your body was resisting losing weight, so the empty fat cells immediately filled up with water
You stayed on the WOE long enough for you body to finally release this water amd the loss showed on the scales

Try to keep to No Snacking between meals & NHS alcohol limits during your hols, so you can avoid regain

Well done on your SV too, Borris, cheddar

Stay focused, especially keep good NFD habits at the weekend and you'll start next week in a great place to progress further

We all find as we get older than we can't get rid of excess as quickly as 10 years ago, especially 20 or 30 years ago
That's usually partly due to TDEE automatically falling with age (unless exercise is seriously tamped up)
and partly due to hormonal changes, e.g. pregnancies, peri / meno or increasing insulin resistance

Good luck on your FD, Stir, 43 and any other Wednesday fasters

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2018 10:53

Sisterhood rocks ! 💪🏻 💪🏼

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/11/2018 11:07

it does BCF Smile

Naughtysausage · 14/11/2018 12:25

Afternoon all.
Had a great FD yesterday, I had an omelette for dinner which was more of a giant frittata- filled with loads of roasted veg and a bit of feta. That and 3 cups of tea came to 550.

Today I'm doing a second FD and it's also alright. Was very tired last night but I do evening courses tues and wed so didn't have much choice but to keep on.

And this is such a lovely supportive nest of vipers Grin

Borris if it was so easy to take off what you put on there would be no impetus to be good. Not very helpful though is it? Hmm

PopGoesTheWeaz · 14/11/2018 14:44

DO NOT BLOW IT ON NFDs may have to be the next thread title :)

Certainly applies for me as I had a positive weigh in today so just need to keep things on track till next week. I've been hovering between 61 and 62 kg so really want to see the scales read 60 point something next week. (Although doctors scales said 60 yesterday - whoop whoop. I know all scales will be different but its always nice to see that your own scales are on the heavy side rather than the other way around!)

No cal noodls are made from a yam that can't be digested so have no or few calories. They are called Shirataki noodles - I think they are originally japanese? And I believe reading that they have traditionally been used in recipes where the noodles might go soggy otherwise (soups?) and chefs like them because they hug the sauce (whatever that means) more than flour based noodles.

There are loads of different brands, but here is one at Holland and Barrett if you want to give them a try. For me, the tricks are to 1. wash and wash and wash again and 2. only eat them in place of rice noodles - eg with a stir fry. One of the first times I had them I tried to cook a mac and cheese type recipe I had read about on tinternet and it was so horrible as they are just too slippery for that type of meal. If you only eat one meal a day, there is just nothing more disappointing then having something inedible for that one meal. But really, for asian food I think they are fine.

Borris · 14/11/2018 19:00

Pop - yes that is soooo true re blowing it on NFDs!

And thanks for the Nocal noodles advice

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/11/2018 19:56

I agree pop good next thread title especially in the run up to Xmas (sorry to mention the 'C' word in Nov!)

Fd done on around 495, I've enough milk left for a cuppa once I've put boy to bed. How have you got on stir and all the other fasters Smile

Drogonssmile · 14/11/2018 20:36

Thanks for the welcomes. Wow the thread has whizzed by over the last couple of days! I've not read through yet. Still learning and checking in here helps keep me accountable. Hopefully I'll get to know everyone and be able to converse properly soon!

Day 3 of 5:2 and NFD yesterday ended on 1581. TDEE is around 1700. Today's FD ending on 487.

All going well, feeling a bit peckish now so have come to bed!

Hope everyone has had a good day. I'll go back and read through now Smile

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 14/11/2018 21:06

NFD coming in at 1695 - just under TDEE! Grin

Well done on your FDs, 43 and Drogon! Naughty, hope yours has gone as well today as it did yesterday!

Pop, yay for seeing 60 on the scales!