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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Borris · 12/11/2018 16:12

I agree with the keeping at it and not getting derailed. This thread is great for keeping motivated whereas on other diets a bad day or a no loss week would make me feel that there is no point and I might as well hoover up a packet of biscuits

visitorthedog · 12/11/2018 18:02

Hi Everyone, welcome Drogon and Moes, I’m new too. Week 2, FD today!

That’s great Pop, the fitting into rings thing is fab isn’t it!

I have a question... if I know I’ve got some tricky occasions coming up, family meals etc, is it worth trying to make that my onlymeal of the day or do an extra FD or mini fast that week? I’m a bit worried if slipping backwards too soon after barely starting!

Drogonssmile · 12/11/2018 18:28

Thanks for the welcomes and thanks @BigChoc for the info, will keep that in mind. I have warned my husband I may be going to bed earlier than usual over the next few weeks while I get used to it!

Had 372kcal so far and surprisingly not wanting to chew my own arm off! Will have some fruit and yogurt and some herbal tea then that's me done for the day 😊

HLBug · 12/11/2018 18:36

Hi Monday Faster (new and old!) I'm finishing on about 750 calories today (which is fine for me in maintainers land). I've not been keeping up with the thread this week but I'm hoping you're all well Smile

purplefig · 12/11/2018 19:16

@visitorthedog in my experience those meals always end up being more than 500 calories, so I would have separate FDs.

So today I tried not eating until dinner time, fully expecting to hate it and eat something by 3pm. But I actually ended up being less hungry than if I ate something at lunchtime. Ended up getting a nice big stir fry and could even have some cashews with it, win win!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2018 19:47

Great motto, pop "Get back on the horse"
Nearly everyone slips up sometime and has a bad day, or even a few days:
On 5:2, you just get back on the horse with an FD, to stop a binge dead in its tracks

visitor With a big meal out, that's always a useful tactic: to make it your only meal of the day

BUT finish one course before you start drinking any alcohol, so your tum has had some food for about 20 mins before
Also, keep to the NHS alcohol limits, so max 2 glasses wine

I suggest a hot Bovril for lunch,
but if you get really hungry have something very light - a liitle lean protein with veg, no starchy carbs,
e.g. prawns / smoked salmon / 1 hard-boiled egg on a green salad dressed with lemon, no bread

OP posts:
Drogonssmile · 12/11/2018 20:15

Finishing on 497 and off to bed!

elspethmcgillicuddy · 12/11/2018 20:54

Hi all! FD kitchen closing on 582 today. It would have been less but I went for a 3.5 mile run at 5.30 am and had a 91kcal protein shake when I got back. I lifted weights for an hour this evening too.

I had a SV on Friday with 141.2lbs which was a loss of just over 2lbs. I may have put some back on after a weekend away with two pub lunches and a load of pizza (plus no chance to have a weekend long run as DH was away so I had the kids all weekend)

Some definite NSVs on the no snacking front... went to patrol station and everyone else had quavers. I totally gave myself permission to have them but chose not to snack instead. Same thing happened in M&S on fri afternoon and I just had a drink. Really proud of that :)

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/11/2018 21:32

Welcome moes and drogon and good luck.

Well done mon fasters. Also well done on the coat and rings nsv! Fab sv too elspeth

Really happy that I managed an nfd of round 1500 today (tdee is 1700) but more importantly, no snacking Smile hoping for the same tomorrow. Off for an early night, I'm stewing on the in-laws so best for dh that I keep my opinions to myself! Sad night all....

BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2018 21:48

Congrats on your SV, elspeth
and on the No Snacking NSVs - that's real progress on forming longterm habits

Well done on your FD, bug, purple, drogon, elspeth

and on your NFD, 43 - that's a big step forward

Shame 5:2 can't fix your ILs too !
Move on and don't let them stress you - beat up a punchbag if you have one available, home or gym

I have a standup one that moves and a hanging one
It's very satisfying

OP posts:
cakegoblin · 12/11/2018 23:02

Kitchen closed on around 560 today and I didn't feel hungry all day! My body has needed the rest. elspeth I am loving your NSVs, it is amazing when it finally clicks that you don't actually need to eat that snack and you'd just be joining in out of habit.
Well done on your FD's, fellow b2b-ers!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/11/2018 07:04

Thanks bcf I'm trying my hardest not to explode, arseholes !

Well done cake

Notreallyhappy · 13/11/2018 08:30

Morning all...looks like everyone on fd yesterday were in the groove & nailed it..
My day finished at 620. Let's see how b2b goes today. At half 5 this morning I did think no way but water & a coffee settled my nerves.
Have emergency soup ready & quite looking forward to some grilled Arbroath kippers for dinner..my life must be so sad when I feel excited about a kipperGrin

cloudjumper · 13/11/2018 08:34

Happy FD Tuesday Smile

Checking back in after going AWOL for a bit - it's been sooo busy here! Still doing the 5:2, and I finally seem to have found my stride... I honestly thought for a while that it's not for me, and that I'd give it up. But a couple of weeks ago, something seems to have clicked, and I'm feeling so much better now.

I did move one of my FDs, which I think has helped a lot - I used to do Thursdays, which is the day I don't work and spend all time with my toddler DD, and I found that sooo hard; not only did I have to watch her eat, but my nerves/tolerance for the usual toddler behaviour was so much lower. Now I've moved the FD to Fridays, bingo Smile
It's definitely worth trying different approaches, if things don't seem to work. I also used to dread the FD, which I don't now (or well, not so much at least Grin). I've even taken the plunge and tried exercising on FDs, and it's not been a problem at all.
Best of all, the weight has finally started to go down - slowly, but I'm happy.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 13/11/2018 08:54

Morning everyone! Well done to all the Monday fasters, and welcome newbies!

FD today - plan is poached eggs and asparagus and mushrooms for dinner, in (some) butter. Apart from that I will see how I go - can have soup for lunch if struggling, or can exist on massive cups of tea. I love milky tea so it uses up a lot of FD calories!

I have a confession, though - I messed up Dry November. Really stressful day on Friday and I just wanted something to relax me. I stuck to 3 drinks, so slightly over NHS levels but by no means a binge. Blush Sorry, Spilt! How are you getting on? I wish everyone around me didn't extol the virtues of alcohol all the time.

On the plus side, some of the mums at the DC's club are planning to go running on Fridays and I've asked to join in, so should be starting this week. I suck at running so it will be hard but fun, I think!

NSV: the instructor at BodyPump said she'd noticed I'd lost weight (all 4 lbs of it), and so did someone else at work. I got all excited and measured my waist this morning but no perceptible change - but I do think it's come off my lower tummy mum flab a bit. I hope! I have noticed in the past that sometimes I don't exactly lose inches on my waist, but the narrowest bit spreads vertically so more of my waist is slim, if that makes sense.

Naughtysausage · 13/11/2018 09:40

Hello!
Just popping back in, having my first FD in a while.
Just a cup of tea so far but have a lovely project to work on today so hopefully will be distracted!
I've really missed the accountability and support of these threads. Fingers crossed it's an easy slide back in. Confused

PopGoesTheWeaz · 13/11/2018 10:19

'd'h derailed me last night by bringing home a pauls baguette, the kind with the lovely crunchy crust. I admit I had a smidgen which probably brought me to about 700 calories. As it was D1 of B2B I 'm hoping that if I'm extra vigilant today and stay below 500, it will all come out in the wash.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/11/2018 11:39

Well done on your FD, goblin, Notreally, pop
and good luck to the Tuesday fasters

Welcome back, sausage
On NFDs, concentrate on NHS alcohol limits and NO Snacking, to boost progress

Well done on your compliments NSV, cheddar
You may be losing a little bodyfat all over - it's very individual where it goes first
The scales should catch up soon if you focus on NFDs
Also, as I've posted before, 5:2 / IF may slightly increase muscle, even without increasing exercise, which will make you look more tones

OP posts:
Borris · 13/11/2018 18:56

B2b day 2. Gone ok. Stuck to my formula of poached egg on small slice of toast with jelly for lunch. And then a ready meal (300 cal cannelloni) and yoghurt for dinner

Notreallyhappy · 13/11/2018 19:09

Well done Borris good plan..I might opt for a ready meal next week, I had fish but it didn't touch the sides..still came In at 620.

Borris · 13/11/2018 19:37

I know ready meals are bit of a cop out but I do find it easy. Especially as I tend to do FDs when I’m on a long day at work. I like the coop good for you range which are often 2 for £4. They are between 280 and 350 cals and when combined with salad or veg to bulk it out feel like a decent meal

BigChocFrenzy · 13/11/2018 20:22

Well done, Borris
Nothing wrong with a ready meal - not a copout at all
I have a box of 48 (!) readymade jars of my fav cucumber, zucchini & spinach soup for FDs - useful too as a quick NFD breakast, with a few stuffed olives

Well done, Notreally Fish is very healthy, too

I recommend a big plateful of several different non-starchy veg, to help fill you up
You can stirfry or bake them with a drizzle of oil
or - my fav - a big mixed salad

I find I don't need bread or rice or any starch with it
also, some folk find starchy carbs spike hunger - is that you ?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 13/11/2018 20:25

I mean the veg for your next FD, to accompany fish or ready meal.
Helps fill you up on NFDs too
and is of course super-healthy

OP posts:
Stircrazyschoolmum · 13/11/2018 20:44

hey all

Apologies for going AWOL (how many times have I said this now?!) family issues causing a bit of a distraction...

Cheddar sober bud! How are you getting on?!
purple and moe welcome!! This is a lovely group of peeps!

43 How are you doing? Have you broken the FD back of things? I think some weeks are harder than others, especially around totm.. If I slip I try to pick myself up and plug myself back.. please don't give up because you are amazing. xx

BCF I never wear skirts but its a good thing because my pants are positively baggy (very non sexy!) DH is promising new underwear for xmas but I don't trust his judgement much... I'm an M&S girl at heart!!

Anyone else watching the apprentice? (yes, I realise they are all wannabes but it doesn't stop me shouting at them and offering proper business advice!!)

MOES2018 · 13/11/2018 21:05

Hi everyone
So my first (in a while) FD yesterday went really well. Ended up at 480 cals. I weighed in at 172.5 which is loss if 2.5! I completely understand this is water weight but it felt good hopping off scales this morning 😁
Today NFD went ok. It is my youngest DD 5th birthday so I had a big dirty donut!! She wanted me to!! Anyway life happens and tomorrow will be a more normal NFD. My 2nd FD will be Thursday. I'll weigh again Friday.
This thread is so motivational and supportive.
Thanks everyone