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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
visitorthedog · 11/11/2018 11:55

Hello, I’m here and still going, FD tomorrow and maybe Tues depending on how I do!

I’m quite amazed that only 7 days in I feel noticeably different, so much less bloated and positive and less obsessed with food!

How is everyone else today?

BigChocFrenzy · 11/11/2018 16:02

We'll all join the Monday fasting gang, Borris, visitor 🙂

Sounds like a good start to 5:2, visitor

FD is going well and I have a good minestrone soup for supper, with a few olives
I did morning spin class + 30 mins weights
and I'm just back from 45 mins walk along the sunny Rhine

OP posts:
Notreallyhappy · 11/11/2018 16:46

Fd on Sundays.. wow..
B2b Monday & Tuesday this week for me Monday was planned but am home alone Tuesday so don't need to cook for anyone so it should be simple.
Totally with you on your thoughts visitor I rejoined the group on thursday and feel free from the diet trap. I even had a slice of cake after my lunch, last week I would of said it was bad want to eat it and sulk.
All have a nice evening and good luck on tomorrow FD.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/11/2018 17:26

Sounds like you are having a good return, Notreally

I often have a weekend FD, if I have a busy social week coming up
Years ago, when I was in the weightloss phase, Saturday was a regular FD, to reduce the weekend damage

  • I was eating back all the FD deficit .... in chocolate ! 😳
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2018 08:04

Good morning, Monday fasters !
Who's in today ?

I'm on FD2 of my b2b

OP posts:
Notreallyhappy · 12/11/2018 08:20

I'm in...#1 of B2B..
75cal soup made for emergencies & fish for dinner.

cakegoblin · 12/11/2018 09:11

Morning, all! Been away for a bit not really achieving anything but not actually putting weight on thank goodness, still 1 stone to go. I have tried to fast on my own a few times but not got anywhere, with pressures of cooking for the family etc and I realise now that the difference is this thread, I think! So I am checking on for day 1 of a B2B - going on hols on Wednesday and could do with the reminder of how enjoyable it is before I go away. (Plus - bikini fear. Grin) Have had a cup of tea, got Bovril in for lunch maybe with a couple of crackers, am going to do stir-fry for dinner with prawns or trying some chunks of quorn, can’t decide. Good luck Borris, Visitor and Not, how nice that there are a few of us on B2B together!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2018 09:22

Welcome back, Goblin
Many find posting helps keep them on track

On holidays, to avoid too much regain, keep to NHS alcohol limits, NO snacking between meals, lots of veg & water

When you return, if you find FDs too difficult with the family,
what about daily 16:8, where you skip breakfast and have only 2 meals: lunch & supper, no snacks - just say Marmite, Bovril and black coffee / tea

OP posts:
purplefig · 12/11/2018 09:54

Hi all! Room for another faster? I've put on 10 lbs and I'm now in the overweight category for the first time in my life! Currently TTC and want to get back into the green. I've had some success with 5:2 in the past (I absolutely love the mindset that comes with it i.e. it's just one day), so hopefully I can do it again. My FDs this week are today and Friday.

I've got black coffee for breakfast Brew, might do a vegetable juice for lunch (I find this strangely filling) and dinner will be vegetables with quorn pieces.

Has anyone had any luck doing more FDs than two? As I mentioned, I'm currently TTC so I wonder whether multiple FDs would be good as in I'd get back to a healthy weight quicker, or be potentially disrupt hormones Hmm any thoughts?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/11/2018 09:55

morning everyone and well done on the weekend fds Shock

Going to aim for 3 sensible TDEE's mon, tues and thurs as I have lunch out and FDs are weds and fri this week.

Good luck to the monday fasters Smile

quackingduck222 · 12/11/2018 11:43

NotReallyHappy - Glad to hear your sticking with us. It’s bloody amazing, make sure you do your measurements as some weeks you will see inch loss rather than losses on the scales.

43 - Well done. 870 cals is fab especially with what your up against ATM. Keep your head held high as your doing fantastic.

BCF - How did your B2B go?

Visitor - That’s brilliant news. Good luck for your fast.

Good luck for your B2B cake.

Purple - Good luck for your FD. Maybe give 4:3 a try and see how it goes for you. I’ve tried it in the past and it didn’t
work for me, never lost anything on the 3rd FD so I ditched it. But it may work for you.

purplefig · 12/11/2018 11:53

@quackingduck222 thanks. I'll see how I get on and maybe give it a go. Chugging along alright today thanks, on my second black coffee and a pint of water!

Borris · 12/11/2018 12:02

Doing ok here so far. Got boiled egg on toast for lunch plus a no cal jelly. Off to cinema tonight but am confident I can avoid the popcorn

cakegoblin · 12/11/2018 12:33

Thanks BCF that's a good idea. Actually I think I must have been doing a slackers version of 16:8 without realising as I have found I really don't need breakfast and would probably not have stayed where I am at 12st if i had been having it. I do like the feeling of having fasted though! I think as it is I need to commit to my first post-hols fast day. putting it on the calendar now!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2018 12:39

Welcome, purple 🙂

Especially if you are ttc, I recommend you do NOT do 3 FDs, but just do normal 5:2
and of course, stop fasting as soon as you get a positive test.

For most folk, I recommend keeping 4:3 as a plateau-buster only, not as the first port of call

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2018 12:42

That's very good practice to put it in your calendar before you leave, goblin

OP posts:
PopGoesTheWeaz · 12/11/2018 13:23

Weird experience shopping for coats the other day. Found myself trying on mediums and they were roomy when usually (or years past. I guess I'm still getting used to my new usually) I'd be searching for XLs and hoping they'd fit!

And, I found a ring I'd lost 6 months ago. I don't normally wear rings as my fingers swell and they feel too tight by mid day but turns out, the weight loss has helped with that issue too.

Borris · 12/11/2018 13:35

Pop that’s encouraging. It must be working SmileSmile

purplefig · 12/11/2018 13:52

BigChocFrenzy Thanks for confirming but I thought! Will stick with 5:2 and will definitely be coming off the moment I get a +!

PopGoesTheWeaz Ahh that must be a great feeling. On the opposite note, my wedding ring has started to feel a bit tighter lately Blush.

MOES2018 · 12/11/2018 13:56

Hello everyone

This is my first time posting but I've been lurking since 5th of June when I had my first FD. What a fantastic group this is.

I have had some success on 5:2 but in the past month I've been really slipping and have put back on about 5 pounds so I have decided to get stuck in and post regularly here which should keep me accountable and in the zone!!!!!!!!!!

So I'm on my first FD this week and have another planned for Friday. I weighed in at 175 this morning and my goal is 158 - 17 pounds to lose. I'd love to lose it by Xmas but who knows. Consistency is my problem......I do great for a few weeks and then boom! I eat everything in sight!

So I'm really looking forward to seeing some good results. I'll be weighing in on Saturday morning after my second FD.

Good luck to everyone this week. Christmas Day is 6 weeks from tomorrow.....my youngest is 5 tomorrow......so I need to lose the pregnancy 17 pounds - it's time!!!!!!!!!!

Drogonssmile · 12/11/2018 14:14

Another newbie here if that's ok?

Started today. Not done 5:2 seriously before but have done a lot of reading about it and have the books so need to start now before Xmas and hopefully will be a stone lighter in 6 weeks!
Did all my measurements today so I'm 10st6lb and want to get back down to 9st4lb eventually. I'm 5'6" and all my clothes are too tight. I spent a fortune on new clothes when I first lost 2 stone a few years ago so I'm going to lose the weight and get back into them!

Today is the first fast day with my second planned for Wednesday. Using nutracheck to keep count.
Today I've had a minestrone cup a soup and tonight have homemade tomato and red pepper soup which works out at 129 kcal per serving. I tend to eat more in the evenings so am saving most of my calories for then. Have some mini meringue nests, fruit and fat free Greek yogurt with honey for dessert.

I look forward to trying out this new woe and hope to be able to stick with it!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2018 14:14

Wonderful coat NSV, pop !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2018 14:19

Welcome MOES 🙂

Is your problem nailing the FDs, or over-eating on NFDs ?

Some people find mfp helps train them into better NFD habits
You could try that for a full week and see how you go

Best tips - keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits, NEVER snack / graze between meals, sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2018 14:25

Welcome, Drogon 🙂

If you tend to eat more at supper time, then on NFDs try to finish your meal 3 hours before you go to bed - and no snacking later.
Otherwise, you are not getting the fat-burning benefit of what should be the daily "overnight fast" (for everyone, not just those on 5:2)

Research has also shown that eating after about 8pm increases the risk of high BP, CVD, stroke
So, it's really worth making this change
Shift-workers need to count back and finish eating 3hrs before their sleep

Good luck to MOES, Drogon & any lurker on their 1st FD

OP posts:
PopGoesTheWeaz · 12/11/2018 14:26

Welcome MOES

I still sometimes have a day where I eat everything in sight. Helps if I don't have bad things in the house but really the best thing for it is just to wash your hands and have a FD. In other words, we don't use a trip up as a reason to quit. Just get back on the horse :)

I find, for me, it helps if I have regular FDs as then when I've tripped up I know when I'm next fasting and there is no prevarication. I sometimes try to throw in a mini to help make up the damage but for me the really important thing has been just to make sure it doesn't derail me completely.

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