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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2018 10:07

FD today
Anyone else ?

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 04/11/2018 10:34

Cheddar - Good for you for doing dry November

43 - ignore the temporary blip, congratulations on your SV that your clothes are hanging. Wow you’ve lost a lot of weight. Are you going shopping soon?

Stir - what a fantastic SV with your jeans. And also good on you for doing dry November.

Elspe - it’s definitely onwards and downwards. Well done on your FD and your 4 mile run and strength training.

I did a FD yesterday and hoping for perhaps a mini today this week has gone from one extreme of not eating much to 2 all you can eat meals out.

Well done everyone for the last week some great FDs and scale victories.

harriethoyle · 04/11/2018 12:38

Me @bigchoc - am full of cold and still not hungry so am going to capitalise on it and have a FD...

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2018 12:42

I hope that cold goes soon, Harrie
Make sure you drink plenty of water
Hot drinks & soup help too, when you have little appetite

Well done on your Saturday FD, duck
Are you able to maintain on 800 FDs or do you prefer 500-600 ?

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 04/11/2018 16:16

800 cals the majority of the time. The leap from 500-800 seems huge in terms of extra food. I love it, definitely more manageable.

Mini FD is scrapped as I found some low GI rolls in Lidl I’ve been waiting for forever to try them. It’s a real treat as really don’t do bread very often.

How’s the weather doing over where you are BCF?

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2018 16:44

duck I find 800 so much easier too - a benefit of maintenance

Within the 3 weeks from mid-October, the weather changed from shorts & tee to needing jeans, hoodie & a thick anorak
Still hardly any rain, so I expect the next harvests - winter & spring veg - will be lower than usual.

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 04/11/2018 19:11

Ending my eating on 573. Happy enough with that! Already planning tomorrow's breakfast in my head Grin How are you getting on @bigchoc?

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2018 20:19

Well done, harrie and enjoy your breakfast 🙂

Like duck I do 800 FDs on maintenance

Today was:
B: Atkins RTD low carb cappuccino latte
L: cucumber, spinach & zuccini soup with raw cracker (carrot, flaxmeal & var. seeds)
S: vegan chilli and chickpeas
Hot Bovril, cocoa with cashew milk

OP posts:
elspethmcgillicuddy · 04/11/2018 21:09

573 sounds like a good FD, Harriet. I'm impressed at those who fast at the weekend.

I managed to avoid snacks other than a piece of toast yesterday at 5pm before the fireworks. We didn't get back in for a lovely Indian takeout until 9pm so I didn't feel it was too bad. Likewise I had a piece of toast late morning today before going out for a 13 mile run and then mid afternoon Sunday lunch before taking DD swimming. I was going to do some weights this evening but I had a fairly rigorous massage last week and my back feels twingy so I am holding off.

I was 144lb yesterday morning after my second FD of the week. So no change on the scales last week. I'm shooting for 143 on Fri morning this week.

FDs this week are Mon and Thurs.

HLBug · 04/11/2018 21:09

Popping on to post a nice graphic I just saw on Twitter. I'm going to print it out and put it Somewhere Important.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "
harriethoyle · 04/11/2018 21:35

I don't usually fast at the weekend @elspeth - but next week is manic and Thursday is my only possible day and if I don't fit two FDs in a week, I'll maintain rather than lose. It's been easier than I thought tbh!

Borris · 04/11/2018 22:22

B2b FDs planned for tomorrow and Tuesday. All birthday cake/party food is gone and no more celebrations so planning to knuckle back down to the 5:2 WOL until Christmas now and see how much progress I can make 🙂

HLBug · 05/11/2018 08:09

FD or Mini today. Not sure which yet - will see how the darling DC behave 

MuddyElephant · 05/11/2018 08:55

Had a v indulgent weekend away with friends. Lost 2lb overall which I'm v pleased with!

Well done to everyone who had FDs over the weekend. Just been catching up on all the SVs and so motivating to see how well others are doing.

Off work today but trying a FD. Have got lots to do to keep me busy!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/11/2018 09:09

thanks quacking I'm picking up some bits here and there, well done on your weekend FD Smile

harrie hope you feel better soon, and well done on getting through a FD

good luck on the scales elspeth

ooh I like that graphic bug hope the DC are heavenly Halo

FD today (I think) although I'm hungry so will see how I get on...

Boysmomma · 05/11/2018 12:47

afternoon everyone! I had family over from Oz last week and a half so only catching up now!

Well done everyone on their SV and NSV!

FD today, 1st of b2b. Good luck Monday fasters!

I did very badly the first few days they were over, visiting everyone and seeing all the sights, I rather overindulged! but I got a small grip on myself, a good shake and did much better from last Monday! It was grand once we got into a routine and I always find it easier to control what I'm eating when I'm making it myself. I didn't even have a drink.....after Sunday Grin.

Every weekend from now until New Years I have parties, get together's, work nights, catch ups, friends and family home. This weekend I'm out all weekend. I've resolved not to drink Friday and try and stay limited on Saturday.

Any and all tips on how best to control everything and not get caught up in the excitement are very much welcome!

Stircrazyschoolmum · 05/11/2018 15:12

Hello all!

Dropping in v quickly before school pick up.

FD for me and going well as have been busy with meetings and chores. Lamb tagine for dinner. It’s a Cook one and apparently 307 a portion which allows enough for lots of spinach and a generous number of cups of tea today.. I might even splurge on a yogurt! Grin

cheddar how was your weekend sober bud? I fell in a sticky toffee pudding but it was still less calories than a large glass of wine!

bug that’s a great graphic and a good one to remember when I’m feeling particularly overwhelmed with deadlines.

boys I’m rubbish with limiting (no off switch once I start) Could you possibly choose 50% of your nights out and make a pact with yourself not to drink/over indulge then enjoy the others guilt free? My sense is you need to set yourself a target or plan as otherwise it could get very messy!

quacking / BCF did you switch from 500 to 800 gradually or one day at a time? I still haven’t decided on my happy weight but probably by Xmas I will want to stabilise. I’m scared of bouncing back up 2-3 kg if I go to maintenance too soon (especially at the festive season) and want to go about it in a healthy and sustainable way, any tips?

Hello to all the other fasters. Good to hear so many folk feeling positive. xx

visitorthedog · 05/11/2018 16:08

Hello, please could I join you? I’ve tried before a long time ago but never really got going, so I’m back to make a go of it this time!

I’m fasting today and trying to hang on through a busy afternoon with kids and making their tea but joining here to keep me going!

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 05/11/2018 17:05

Welcome, Visitor! Is that a JC username?

Stir - I stuck to sobriety, probably helped by being away from my kids for large chunks of the day! I did have pudding and sweets, though. It still has to be less calories than having that plus wine! My next challenge is to ditch most of the sweets/pudding and just have them occasionally, like twice a week.

Good luck to all the Monday fasters!

Drogonssmile · 05/11/2018 18:25

I'm new here but ooh just had to say I loved visitor the dog. I loved how he smiled!
Sorry completely random and off topic there.....

I'll start again.....I'm just lurking really as I intend to start next Monday (I know it's a cliche but it's my birthday today so I can't realistically start until the celebration meals are done with). Hope to join in here from next week onwards for the first time properly doing 5:2.

visitorthedog · 05/11/2018 18:41

Thank you, ah yes it is a JC name and nobody has commented before so two people knowing it is Grin

I think I need a lab called Visitor one day!

Still hanging in on first fast day, just need to go to bed early!

Borris · 05/11/2018 19:43

Well done fasters. Day 1 gone ok for me. Work was really busy so that helps. Veg stir fry tonight and a yoghurt

BigChocFrenzy · 05/11/2018 20:58

Well done on your SV, Muddy

Boys Going out every weekend until Xmas can certainly lead to regain if you don't have a good routine
Tips:

  • make either Saturday or Sunday an FD
  • If that is not possible, move to 4:3, with FDs on Mon+Wed+Fri
  • on the other weekend day, keep to no snacks and NHS alcohol limit, i.e. max 2 drinks
  • Keep drinking water, especially when others are boozing

Stir Once you get to goal weight, I recommend:

+Keep the same system until your weight has been stable for 2 weeks
+Then move to 1 FD of 800, keeping the other at 500
+Stay with that for at least 2 more weeks

  • After weight has been stable for 2 weeks on that, then move to both FDs of 800

On maintenance, you eat back the FD calorie deficit on NFDs, so NFDs are significantly more generous than in the weight loss phase

  • Some folk like to keep the 500 FDs, if they want to eat more on NFDs, or usually have a lot of social occasions
  • Some can maintain on 6:1 or 13:1, if they have learned to eat within TDEE on NFDs
  • Some even maintain on daily 16:8, if they have really adjusted "normal" eating to what their body burns
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/11/2018 21:04

Welcome, visitor, Drogon 🙂

Happy Birthday, Drogon ! 💐🔔
Definitely a good idea to enjoy the celebrations and then start next week
Is it a milestone birthday today ?

You must have nearly finished your 1st FD, Visitor
I recommend you drink water and then clean your teeth, to reduce the temptation to nibble
Always a good idea to maximise fasting benefits with an early night.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/11/2018 21:05

Well done, Borris
Is this a single FD1 or a b2b ?

OP posts: