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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 31/10/2018 11:47

Morning all - SV of 1lb down this morning, but I'm still 2.5lbs higher than I was after the first 2 weeks on 5:2 Sad. Never mind - hoping for a loss after Thursday's FD too. Halloween party tonight so it might be a bit chaotic - don't actually know what to do about dinner, because I don't know if my hostess is doing food or not. Given she's got a bunch of 6 year olds coming round at 5.30 I really hope she's doing dinner for them at least!

Borris · 31/10/2018 12:12

Have you mfp for a week cheddar. I resisted this for a long time and it’s only since reassessing my nfd that I’ve seen sustained losses

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 31/10/2018 12:30

wow borris that is fantastic Smile
well done on the SV cheddar that extra weight will soon be off I'm sure

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2018 13:57

Well done on your lowest SV in 3 years, Borris

  • it shows the benefit of your hard work on changing NFD / "normal eating" habits

That extra b2b should help offset Halloween, but if you see a post-H blip, don't worry - you've nailed 65.2 kg and can do again, then onwards & lower

Well done on your SV too, cheddar
As Borris says, you probably need to modify your NFD habits, for the longterm too
and just one week on mfp can give a reality check and indicate hidden calorie bombs etc

I also recommend you have a tea / supper with plenty of protein before the party tonight, especially if it's for kids - most likely any food will be the junkiest of party food
Clean your teeth before you go, too, to reduce the chance of nibbling on sweet crap

OP posts:
elspethmcgillicuddy · 31/10/2018 16:53

Well done Borris!

Hang in there for Halloween everyone!

I have now watched bake off so can take myself off media blackout! I don't know how I feel about the winner. I didn't think they grew or developed as much as the others through the process. They were annoying this week and so negative it was a bit annoying for them to win in the end.

MuddyElephant · 01/11/2018 06:47

Well done boris! Hope everyone survive Halloween.

elspeth I completely agree about bake off!

FD for me. Using some batch cooking from the freezer for dinner which is higher in calories than I'd really want so hoping the day isn't too hard. Good luck to everyone else on their FD today Halo

snailhunter · 01/11/2018 08:43

Morning fellow Thursday FDers! Blimey, it's gloomy out there. Going to be a difficult one for me today as no outings planned and boring work to do! I find them so much easier if I've got a really challenging piece of work on my plate, rather than just routine stuff. And DH is out all day and evening, so I will be doing all the family cooking, boo. Well, I'll see how I get on.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/11/2018 09:42

morning everyone, I'm FD-ing also snail and agree its so much easier when super busy so no time to think about food!!

removes GBBO gag elspeth yes I was disappointed also, not sure any of them were that good in the final this year, nothing wowed! was a bit miffed Rahul won though given that I think he should have gone the other week Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 01/11/2018 09:56

Good luck, Muddy, snail, 43

Yes, most people find that if they have some tasks on which to focus their mind for much of the day , then the FD is much much easier

Also drink water, boost veg, have adequate protein

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 01/11/2018 10:04

Hi everyone sorry I’ve been AWOL
For ages. Our internet connection atm is horrendous and been down as well as the tv for days.

Welcome and best of luck to the newbies.

Borris Congratulations on your fantastic SV. You’ve done absolutely amazing.

StirCrazy hope you had a fab anniversary.

I was wondering how all of you that were doing Stoptober got on?

Last week I hit my lowest weight ever, it was a temporary thing as I was so stressed out I was barley eating. Unusual for me as I would normally turn to food. Normal eating has resumed and weight has returned I will look at fasting towards the end of the week.

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 01/11/2018 10:40

Elspeth, totally agree about Bake Off - the showstoppers all looked crap, the pitta bread challenge only tested their ability to barbecue, and how on earth has Rahul never tasted doughnuts? Bit of a disappointing end - I want to drool over beautiful creations, not think it all looks amateur and sludgy.

Snail, Elephant and 43, good luck today! I'm fasting too and so far I feel much chirpier than I did on Tues - think on Tues I was starving from the moment I woke up and it was a real struggle. Today I don't feel so hungry (yet) so hopefully I will feel less grumpy.

Finished yesterday on approx 1950 calories, which is over my TDEE (1700) but not that terrible given it was Halloween! I couldn't follow BigChoc's advice as I was going straight from work, but as it happened, adults didn't eat anything at the party and I didn't have a glass of wine as I was driving . I did have some Haribo and a lollipop DS didn't want, but given the sheer volume of sweets we went home with I don't think that's too bad (and I went to BodyPump yesterday and carried DS most of the way around the streets when we went guising, so I got plenty of exercise).

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/11/2018 12:49

oh no quacking hope you are feeling less stressed now Flowers

that's good to hear cheddar I think for me FDs are easier so long as I'm in the right frame of mind for it, I wouldn't worry about going over your TDEE slightly either, you can shave a couple of hundred off the next NFD??

Lunch eaten and busy afternoon, hope the other tues fasters are getting on okay??

HLBug · 01/11/2018 13:09

I'm joining in with a Mini FD today - no more than 1000 calories shall pass these lips. I've been particularly  this week - NFDs have been good too. Going to try and be as "good" as possible throughout November so I can relax a bit more over December / Christmas and not be too far over happy weight at the start of January.

duck Hope you're ok? Not good to be so stressed that you're not eating 

Good luck to all the other Thursday Fasters!

HLBug · 01/11/2018 13:10

Emojis still not working on the app then...

harriethoyle · 01/11/2018 13:34

Am on second FD of the week here - just inhaled 193 calories of tuna sandwich in the work car park! Probably a ready meal or soup tonight...

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/11/2018 13:42

ooh do we have to guess if you've been good or bad bug Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 01/11/2018 13:52

I hope the stress has all been resolved now, duck so you can chill

You are doing well, Thursday fasters 🙂

Halloween is over - crikey, November already; where has the year gone, suddenly

Those doing Dry November - remember you start today !
Who's going for it ?

OP posts:
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 01/11/2018 14:19

I'm doing Dry November - I have a night out tomorrow, but I'm doing a course on Sat and Sun, which is 9.30 to 4.30 and a good hour and a half from my house, so there will be much driving and then I need to concentrate when I get there. This means I shall be asking for tea tomorrow! My only other planned night so far is the 22nd - meeting a group of friends for dinner and it's generally very drunken. That one might be trickier to navigate, but it's a long way away so I needn't worry yet. Stir, are you still on for Dry November?

snailhunter · 01/11/2018 16:02

Blimey, it's 4pm already! Not a thing has passed my lips apart from tea, hooray, and feeling fine.Though I am being sorely tested by my 12yo who has just arrived home from his friend's house having baked a chocolate cake! The rotter! I shall take the dog out in the rain to get away from it.

MuddyElephant · 01/11/2018 17:07

snail that's impressive! I'm bloody hungry...Am blaming AF turning up. Resisted the choc but gave in to some eggs this morning. Going to end on about 650 which isn't too disastrous given its obly my 2nd FD.

bigchoc I'm doing dry at home Nov if that counts Wink a few events this month I want to enjoy a glass of fizz at, but nothing at home

BigChocFrenzy · 01/11/2018 17:29

That's good going snail
and good tactic to retreat from your DC's cake - you can have a slice tomorrow

Muddy 650 would be a good 2nd FD

"HomeDry" in the past has meant NHS alcohol rules outside. Doable ?

Go for it, Cheddar
How about Dry Nov, Stir ? Anyone else ?

OP posts:
VERA12345 · 01/11/2018 18:19

Hi everyone, does anyone have that diet list, telling you what to eat and drink.
Thanks

snailhunter · 01/11/2018 20:17

Kitchen closed on 446. I have resisted the cake! Had chicken cacciatore for dinner which has really filled me up, then Greek yog and berries. Am def going to stick to big slab of protein in evening from now on. Veg stir fries look like a lot - and they do taste delicious - but I find if I don't have protein on an FD evening meal then I don't sleep very well. Very pleased with myself! Your FD sounds fine muddy.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/11/2018 21:09

Well done muddy and snail kudos on resisting the cake Shock

Fd done here on 564 so slightly over but given I've resisted chocolate, wine and gin this evening I'm pretty happy with myself I will be having the Wine and Gin tomorrow Grin

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 01/11/2018 21:13

Kitchen closed on 519. It was easy during the day but much harder once I got home and saw all of the Halloween sweets!