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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Borris · 30/10/2018 16:02

Prawn stir fry for me tonight. Probably followed by a yoghurt

Borris · 30/10/2018 16:03

Rahul is too drama llama for me

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 30/10/2018 16:08

I have totally gone off Rahul. I like Ruby out of the finalists - Kim-Joy is ok but a bit too airy-fairy hippy-dippy. It is sometimes really difficult watching Bake-Off on fast nights, but if I watch it upstairs with a cup of tea after turning off all the lights downstairs then I'm not tempted to go back to the kitchen and eat things. I hope!

harriethoyle · 30/10/2018 16:11

Hi guys! Established faster, lost 6kg since May and would like to lose 3kg more... new -ish boyfriend and lots of meals out has meant recent 5:2 is ensuring I maintain rather than shed the last stubborn few kgs... So thought I would join you for a bit of motivation Grin

Fasted yesterday (496) and Thursday is planned as FD. Might do Sunday this week too, as I can't do Monday or Tuesday next. Off on holiday with my bff in a couple of weeks and it's all inclusive so I may have some serious damage limitation to do on my return! Blush

MuddyElephant · 30/10/2018 17:41

Thanks @Stircrazyschoolmum. I resisted cake in the office but are a few m&ms without thinking Shock all in all not too bad for my first day....Just need to get through an evening in by myself without raiding the cupboards after dinner

BigChocFrenzy · 30/10/2018 17:42

Welcome, harrie 🙂

Best tips to lose the final stubborn lb are to keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits, no snacking / grazing, sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/10/2018 17:45

Muddy To avoid after-supper nibbles:
as soon as you've finished, even before clearing your plate,
drink a glass of water and clean your teeth:
the fresh taste really discourages further eating

OP posts:
Gildashairflick · 30/10/2018 17:45

Kim joy for me. Raul looks like he will have an on the spot coronary if he won and as pleasant as ruby is she has a face for the media and will be everywhere. I'd love to see Kim joy carve out a really interesting and quirky career on the back of a win

harriethoyle · 30/10/2018 17:50

Thanks @bigchoc - am babysitting for friends on Fri so won't be drinking and if I fast on Sunday, Sat will be my only alcohol night, which will help. doing 16:8 tomorrow too, seeing FD not til Thurs and popping to the supermarket to get lots of veg to bulk up meals. I'll get there!!

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 30/10/2018 18:44

First FD in a while here. I REALLY need to get back into the swing! How's everyone doing?

BigChocFrenzy · 30/10/2018 18:47

Hi smiled How has your FD been ?

OP posts:
Gildashairflick · 30/10/2018 19:22

If anyone is interested, the link to the soup I had today is below. I adapted the recipe a little by adding chilli and a splash more soy. I used part cabbage and part left over steamed broccoli I had. It really did fill me up a treat and I have the second portion for Thursday. I think I may pimp it up with spring onions and a dash of lime juice and it will be perfect. Could work with a handful of prawns instead of chicken too I guess

Gildashairflick · 30/10/2018 19:22

Helps if I post the bloody link!

www.goodtoknow.co.uk/recipes/chicken-miso-soup

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 30/10/2018 19:46

Hi Big Choc Smile

Am good thanks! Have managed to keep to my exercise plan this week & get back on the 5:2 wagon today.

Have had:
tea/ coffee for breakfast

A 1 egg & leek omlette for lunch with a cup of boullion.

Am about to have a prawn pho for dinner - will post the recipe for this later it's yummy & very filling!
Also have discovered that the AF sparkling wine I like is only 23cals for 125ml - had one of these this pm Smile

Will have a sleepy herbal tea before bed.

Since I began fasting this year, I have learned that I am definitely better at it when I have lots to do & am distracted. Sitting round trying to work at home next to the fridge is a terrible idea!

Hope everyone else had a good FD Grin

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 30/10/2018 19:47

And excited about the bake off final here too GrinGrinGrin

Borris · 30/10/2018 20:35

I’m watching bake off tooSmile

elspethmcgillicuddy · 30/10/2018 21:18

Well done everyone who fasted today. I did a NFD and went out for lunch to pizza express with friends. Had a great running club session- 5 miles of hill intervals this evening.

I'm spending a week MFPing everything so closing today on 1870 (my TDEE is 1950).

I watched last week's bake off earlier with the ironing. I won't get to watch this week's until Friday so no spoilers please 

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/10/2018 21:43

Fd done here on 520ish cals Smile

Well done everyone else on their fds and nfds.

Good luck avoiding any spoilers until Friday elspeth.... dh the greedy sod ate not 1 but 2 cream cakes watching it Envy

Off for an early night....

MuddyElephant · 30/10/2018 21:50

Well done everyone on their fast days.

Thanks for the tip @BigChocFrenzy. I did some crafting and watched bake off which seemed to take my mind off food!

Jet lag still hanging on so off to bed...

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 30/10/2018 22:08

Closing on 532 calories - sneaked an extra cuppa with Bake Off or it would have been 505.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 31/10/2018 09:29

morning everyone and happy halloween Halloween Grin

Nfd today, i'm planning chicken salad for lunch and maybe some nice soup and bread for dinner and a slice of cake for afters i must not eat any halloween sweets

hope everyone else has a good day

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2018 09:48

Well done on your FD, smiled, 43, muddy, cheddar and all the other Tuesday fasters

Thanks for the recipe, gilda
Looking forward to your recipe too, smiled

Your running club sounds brilliant, elspeth
no GBBO spoilers because Elspeth hasn't watched yet 🤫

Lots of veg is always a good start, Harrie
How are you doing today, Borris ?

Good luck Wednesday fasters !
Anyone needing support - FD or NFD - do post

OP posts:
elspethmcgillicuddy · 31/10/2018 09:49

Haha! Thanks 43 I haven't been on Facebook since yesterday afternoon and haven't looked at the news.

I'm off to meet up some school friends for a night away and then a spa day. I've had a big breakfast of Indian scrambled eggs and I am going to have soup for lunch then go out for dinner. I'll relax a bit but stick to no snacking. FD on Friday.

Have a good day everyone!

elspethmcgillicuddy · 31/10/2018 09:51

Bigchoc my running club is great. They take it quite seriously which can mean you get left behind but I don't mind that and try to just keep to my pace. I'm somewhere in the middle 
I went out and did 4 miles this morning before breakfast but my legs were tired from last night so I took it quite slowly.

Borris · 31/10/2018 11:15

I am amazing thanks. 65.2 kg today. The lowest for nearly 3 years and over half way to target now. I’m wondering if it might be falsely low as I did 2 b2bs in 6 days as was away the first week of half term so did Thursday-fri and then my normal Monday-Tuesday? But happy anyway. Just got to be sensible with all the birthday cake and treats around for dd over the next 3 days

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