Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/10/2018 13:15

stir that's not a bad results all things considered!

I've had to postpone FD today, been feeling headachey, nauseous and dizzy since I got up... had to have a yogurt mid morning - just had my chicken salad and feel a little better but still not right.... hmmmmm

OhDoGrowUp · 26/10/2018 13:26

Ah sorry to hear that forty. Hope you’re alright. Join me for FD tomorrow instead if you’re up to it!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/10/2018 14:09

Hope an early night does the trick, 43
Have a healthy TLC day instead, no fasting, but no snacks, junk or booze either

OP posts:
Borris · 26/10/2018 20:29

Successful FD today. Well done to other tasters. Hope the poorly people feel better soon. I'm going for b2b tomorrow (not as bad as it sounds as I'm working)

Borris · 26/10/2018 20:31

I had this for tea. It was surprisingly nice, although I was very hungry.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "
elspethmcgillicuddy · 26/10/2018 21:39

Good NFD today with zero snacking!! I decided on my dinner early and put it on straight when I got in the door. I then put a bit of cake and chocolate aside for dessert and had those and then nothing else. I'm calling that a success!

I actually feel a lot more free. I've been trying to restrict on non fasting days in various ways (either MFP or slimming world) and it all feels too much so I then eat too much or fall off the bandwagon. At the moment I feel like I can eat anything as long as it is part of a meal. And that is pretty freeing...

BigChocFrenzy · 27/10/2018 07:31

Well done on your FD, Borris
That's another ready meal idea pp can try

Well done on no snacking, elspeth
On NFDs, the aim is to develop good habits for life, which help to maintain, not to diet.
So: no snacking, keeping to NHS alcohol limits, lots of water, being sensible about amounts of junky treats
Most people can lose at a reasonable rate with those habits

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 27/10/2018 09:38

I'm having an FD today and Monday
Any other Saturday fasters ?

OP posts:
Gildashairflick · 27/10/2018 12:06

I'm just planning for next week when tues and thurs will be FD's. I've got baked egg with spinach and toms for breakfast (114 c) chicken miso soup for lunch (132) red pepper and carrot sticks for munchies (40) that gives me 300 for evening meal and I'm stumped. Steamed fish and veg appeals (a bit!) but where are your go to for recipes? I like to cook rather than ready made.

Borris · 27/10/2018 15:26

I’m a Saturday faster. Just got in from work and having poached egg on small slice bread.

Borris · 27/10/2018 15:28

Gilda - straight to wok rice noodles are 160 cals. So lots of veg and a light sauce will make a good fd meal for 300 cals. You might even manage some prawns with it

Gildashairflick · 27/10/2018 15:49

@Borris thank you that's a good suggestion.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/10/2018 17:15

Gilda The OP has a section "Useful Resources & Calculators" directly after the "How to Start" section.
Below the various calculators for BMI, alcohol etc you will see links for "FD Recipes"

Below that are also healthy NFD reipes, for those trying to change habits

Sounds good, Borris

I had a small but delic lunch of cucumber, spinach & zuccini soup (comes in a jar) with tiny raw carrot, flaxmeal & seed crackers.
Then afternoon Tabata Pump
and now I'm having a high protein Optifast leek soup, with more of the crackers
Also 2 mugs of cocoa, made with water & cashew milk

Tomorrow morning will be fasted spin, so I bought red grapes, cheese, rye bread & green salad for lunch afterwards

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 27/10/2018 17:16

(the frig door will not be opened again until then !)

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 27/10/2018 23:49

Remember the clocks go back Sunday 2am !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2018 09:28

Hello, Monday fasters ! 
Who's fasting today ?

OP posts:
AnnieLewis · 29/10/2018 09:32

Morning! Am fasting today, anyone else? Have had a fairly disastrous half term with only one proper (non failed) FD the whole 9 days.

Back in it today. Feeling bloated and tired.. hope to feel better later/tomorrow. Might do a B2B and get the week off to a good start!

Hope everyone is feeling better, am trying to catch up with the thread!

snailhunter · 29/10/2018 09:54

Morning all! I'm back fasting after an absolutely lovely half-term break - it was a great idea to go away for the last half and we're going to make our off-season seaside trip an annual event as everyone loved it so much. Lots of walking but also plenty of salted caramel ice cream, so looking forward to getting back to decent eating habits! Feeling fine and having a good morning of getting things done so far. I always find a day of fasting helps that rubbishy bloaty feeling Annie

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 29/10/2018 10:07

Morning all and good luck, Monday fasters!

I had a bad end to last week - DH has been having trouble at work and came home on Thurs really upset - essentially, he's suffered from depression on and off for years, and it's been flaring up again over the last 6 months but he hasn't done anything about it. He was then warned he was underperforming at work, so it's all been a bit hectic and stressful and I am petrified he'll lose his job. Sad He's now signed off for a week and next Monday he'll have a discussion with his manager about whether his current role is right for him - he thinks it isn't but he's not sure what alternatives there might be, if any. Anyway, that's a bit of a brain dump, sorry - I dealt with it in my usual way by falling face first into white carbs.

Starting again today - I am going to do the No S Diet rules in between fast days. No Sweets, No Snacks, No Seconds, except on days that start with an S. I've done this before and it's very sane, because you eat 3 plates of food a day, no more, but I didn't lose any weight because the weekends outweighed the weekday sanity. It is essentially BigChoc's rules about NFDs, I just for some reason find it easier to have a rule of no snacks/biscuits etc than it is to count calories and have a biscuit if I have leftover calories. So I will do No S today, Wed and Fri, and fast on Tues and Thurs.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2018 10:07

Good luck, Annie, snail

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2018 10:17

So sorry to hear about your DH's illness, 💐 cheddar - and depression is an illness.
Can you persuade him to go to the GP and see if ADs or other treatment would help ?

Fingers crossed that he and his firm can agree a role that suits him better

re weekends:
for many people, very indulgent weekends sabotage a good week and prevent loss
The NoS diet is rather different to our 5:2 healthy habits, which apply 24/7, but do allow sensible amounts of treats on NFDs

I strongly recommend that on weekends too, you keep to NHS alcohol limits and No Snacking
You can enjoy treats and alcohol as part of your weekend meals

Otherwise, you still have a snacking / binge habit; 2 or even 2.5 days per week can very easily mean you eat back all the FD deficit

No need to calorie count if you don't want, because most people can lose without doing this, provided they stick to the 5:2 healthy habits,

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 29/10/2018 10:37

morning everyone,

seems like half term has been tricky for some including me Blush

NFD today as woke up really hungry and not in the mood for fd - planning fd tomorrow and thurs this week as got visitors fri-sun so can't do my usual fri fd...

cheddar that sounds stressful, hope your DH gets the help he needs

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2018 11:35

Sounds a good idea, 43
To keep blood sugar under control, drink water, remember no snacks and have lots of veg with your meal.

FD for me too, a shamelessly lazy one culinarily:

B: mug of cocoa with cashew milk
L: delic small Drink & Go cucumber, spinach & zuccini soup, with tiny raw carrot, flaxmeal & seedy crackers.
T: another cocoa or a hot Bovril
D: Optifast high-protein leek soup with more crackers

OP posts:
badger82 · 29/10/2018 13:05

Hi Monday fasters!
Weight static on Fri but need to up my game with no snacking on NFDs and get solid FDs in this week. Have done Stoptober and nearly there - feel SO much more energetic and refreshed

HLBug · 29/10/2018 13:24

It's a Monday FD for me too - should finish on about 700 which is fine for me in maintenance land. When I stepped on the scales this morning I was just above happy weight though (by 1lb) but its no surprise after this weekend. I'm just back from the supermarket and have planned healthy NFDs meals for the rest of the week so that, plus 2 good FDs, should see me right.

chedder your situation with DH sounds very similar to what we've been through recently... wishing you both lots of strength to get through this tough time.