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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
TalkinPeace · 06/02/2018 08:00

)))))) Low fat cheddar ((((((((((
Nasty processed stuff.
Much better to buy the strongest cheddar you can and eat a little bit that has flavour exploding in your mouth.

drwhy that is a serious swim. I do a mile in 40 mins (1604 m) head up breast stroke several times a week .... the cardio fitness of endurance swimming is a good thing as we see 50 heading off in the rear view mirroe :-)

m0therofdragons · 06/02/2018 08:59

Weighed this morning - 5lbs off since Monday before last, although I do fluctuate by about 5lbs I'm currently at the low end so need to do a push to get under the stone barrier. 4 more pounds and I with no longer be classed as overweight. Feeling like I can do this.

Today is a FD but I'm working from home with ill dd (who is now much more active as much better). Danger of grazing but feeling determined (it is only 8.55am though Grin) menu is planned - mainly around soup - dh made dc breakfast and I have lunch to heat up for Dd2 then dc have sandwiches tonight (wraps because they love them and I do not!), dh now cooks his own dinner on my FDs.

HLBug · 06/02/2018 09:35

Welcome rydale Smile

Checking in for a Tuesday FD. DD decided on a 2.5hr party between midnight and 2.30am though...and was up again at 5am. I'm knackered and she's pottering around bashing her brother's paw patrol quite happily - it's not fair! But it is my last week of maternity leave so I guess I should be embracing every moment Hmm

Contemplating a B2B this week as I have a busy day tomorrow.

2kidsnopets · 06/02/2018 11:10

Morning all. Good luck to fasters.
I'm on a nfd, only porridge and about a gallon of tea so far.
I seem to end up feeling like I have a hangover the day after a FD. It's not dehydration as I drink plenty on a FD. It means I end up feeling rougher on a nfd than a fd, which is frustrating.
If I hadn't been out all morning I'd probably have ended up eating the kids biscuits.

2kidsnopets · 06/02/2018 11:12

Oh, and scales this morning without wet hair (but a bit cheaty because after a FD) report a loss of 3kg in 8 days. I have never ever lost weight that quickly even when I did 5:2 before so wondering if my scales are telling porkies.

peachypips · 06/02/2018 12:03

Sorry went off piste for a couple of days. FD today. Planning the usual lunch and dinner and going for a short run.

Had a bad brownie-related incident on Saturday. I think I ate back my calorie deficit from last week in one sitting Sad. Another reason why I don't eat sugar- triggers crazy bingeing in me.

Mother- re running- if you watch the latest Moseley doc it says that it's best to do exercise you enjoy.

HLBug - I am b2b too. Today and tomorrow. Suited me really well last week.

I need to crack on with this and stop faffing about. Grrr

Hi new people!

DrWhy · 06/02/2018 12:24

Hi and welcome to the new folks!
I had got the message about not eating sugary things on a FD and spiking my blood sugar but hadn’t realised they had such an effect the night before - thanks for another tip BCF and I hope it works.
Thanks TiP for the encouragement on my swimming, I only do such a long session once a week and have been going for a month now. I was also swimming a shorter (and slowed) session on a Thursday but I now have spin then and I’m not sure I’ll manage both. I definitely need to fit in some other exercise somewhere though.
FD today and off to get some soup from the canteen. I have leftover quorn chilli for dinner tonight which is

BigChocFrenzy · 06/02/2018 13:11

Great swim, DrWhy sounds like you are our champion there Smile
Some folk do lose in fits and starts, particularly women;
hence why I recommend those folk look at the trend over every 3-4 weeks and not worrying about short-term blips

Well done on your SV, m0therofdragons
Now you know you can progress when you get weekends under more control
NFDs are good practice for maintenance, because after your hard work, you never want to see that lost weight again, do you - so that means permanently changing some habits

talkinpeace I agree, most special low-fat food taste yuk to me.
e.g. most low-fat yoghurts or rice puds have the consistency and appeal of snot, imo

Also, I never have flavoured yoghurts: they are either packed with sugar or have a dreadful aftertaste of cheap sweeteners.

However, I love the (unflavoured) high protein low fat yoghurts like Skyr: they are as thick as clotted cream, but only about 65 cals per 100 ml.
I actually prefer them now, to ordinary yoghurt.

OP posts:
m0therofdragons · 06/02/2018 13:15

Today is going to be a tough FD! Been on it so far but already had my tea and coffee allowance. Going for one more coffee and I'll be at 514 for the day if that's the only exception so that's manageable.

Soup for dinner plus a small pudding should get me through. Slightly wishing the day away!

rydal · 06/02/2018 13:38

Thanks so much for the tips BCF. I've decided not to do B2B yet, agree would be too much too soon. So this is my first FD, having normal day tomorrow (need to work out TDEE and what is this 16:8 you speak of?) then FD again on Thursday.

Only decided to make this FD after making packed lunches for DCs and I nibbled on their crusts and had a cup of milky tea. Nothing now till poached egg and beans on toast for dinner. Feels strange to be sitting here hungry now, can't imagine what I will feel like later! Going to read this thread when I wobble.

snailhunter · 06/02/2018 13:57

Welcome and good luck rydal! I've found that herbal teas have been my saviour on fast days. I love Pukka's Three Ginger and their Green Tea and Matcha - they really warm you up on days like this.

quackingduck222 · 06/02/2018 14:14

Welcome Rydal.

16:8 is your eating window. So for example 12PM - 8PM you eat. After this you stop eating and fast for 16 hours. Obviously use your own timings.
16 hour fast 8 hour eat.

It works very well alongside 5:2 or even on its own. Some people choose just 16:8 to diet.

m0therofdragons · 06/02/2018 14:47

Didn't have extra coffee as I found a peppermint tea bag in my cupboard Grin
Too far into the day to give this up now but after school run snack time is a challenging one!

rydal · 06/02/2018 15:41

Oh thanks duck I get it now. I still feel hungry but no more so than I was at lunch time. Not unpleasant but just strange. And it’s strange that hunger is such an alien sensation - I must be constantly eating!

slinkyme · 06/02/2018 16:02

Only getting a chance to post now. Meant to share my little experience this am which shows how scales and even our bodies defy logic sometimes. So after a FD yesterday weighed this am as per normal and was at my highest weight in my current bouncing - 60.1kg. I then went on to have breakfast with sick DC home from School. Very full fat milky tea with sugar (even though I gave up sugar in drinks about a year ago) and two toast with lovely lurpak. Went for a late shower and hopped on the scales once more just before jumping in and hey ho scales had dropped to 59.4 - my current lowest weight. So go figure.

TalkinPeace · 06/02/2018 16:21

ryday
I have never ever done back to back 500 calories days - and I started 5:2 in August 2012

I eat less on a Monday and a Thursday
it makes the method sustainable and feasible long term - which is the key idea

juicygirly · 06/02/2018 16:32

Wow slinky I wish toast with lurpak would give me the same results, I would be a devout faster Grin

FD today , almost ruined it by Joining in to eat with dc but didn't ! Feel so on a high now I'm planning b2b tomorrow! However weighed myself yday and havnt budged one bit even though have had two b2b fasts last week and have been sick so not eating ! Period due though so I'm not letting myself be too disheartened.

It's the home stretch fasters, keep strong ! X

2kidsnopets · 06/02/2018 16:50

slinkyme did you have a giant poo? Grin

Bestbees · 06/02/2018 17:10

Slinky thats very strange!

Good day here so far after easy FD yesterday. In fact probably coukd have skipped lunch, worried about being too hungry then snacking. I had two eggs and a slice of toast and some grapes at breakfast, sardine salad and apple for lunch and for dinner have veg crumble with brocolli. That leaves me still with 400cals. I will swim after dinner so shoukd i avoid eating those cals or is it a good idea to have say pnb on toast to eat them so fast day is easier?

BlueBelle123 · 06/02/2018 17:24

FD going well had nothing but black coffee and water so far, have made a quorn cottage pie which is just finishing off in the oven with some veg for tea, can't wait and then some berries and yogurt, then that will be be done for the day!!

Slinky I'm off the same opinion as 2kids, but don't feel you have to shareSmile

peachypips · 06/02/2018 18:02

Nearly finished FD no 1 of the week. FD no 2 tmrw.

I've only just started doing them b2b in the last couple of weeks, and it's def horses for courses as I am a relatively new faster and I am actually finding it easier than spacing them out.

I changed it because I didn't want to fast on Monday as I was dreading the start of the week and I only do a half day on Mon at work so like to exercise hard in the afternoon. However, I didn't want the fasting to drag past Wed! So decided to do Tues and Wed. I have found the second day much easier than the first as I am just not at all hungry. It suits me.

I think that it's because I'm in the mindset from the day before, and so it easy.

As BCF says, we all gradually work out what we can sustain long term.

slinkyme · 06/02/2018 19:31

2kids and Blue you would think wouldn't you. But no am constipated as ever. There is literally no logical reason for this. And this has happened before too.

Butteredparsn1ps · 06/02/2018 19:34

Just finished today's NFD on 1200 calories in penance for a chocolate fudge cake incident at the weekend. We went out for dinner and I misread the cake to be 500 calories on MFP when it was actually 900. Whoops. I must remember to take my reading glasses out with me. Hmm

Anyway, I have a question. MFP also says a single stick of Cadbury's twirl has 0 sugar in it. Surely that's not possible?

Tomorrow is a fast day so I'll see y'all on the other side. Good luck fellow fastees.

Unescorted · 06/02/2018 19:44

slinky did you have a very long shower? Would it be possible that you lost water through osmosis... I find after a soak where my toes and fingers go wrinkled I weigh less. I have always put it down to water loss.

HLBug · 06/02/2018 19:59

Good, positive FD here today - the first good FD I've had in a while actually! Winter bugs must be to blame. Lots of black tea today may also have helped. Finishing on about 380 calories and I'm still fairly sure I'll be B2Bing with another FD tomorrow (so we can spur each other on peachy)