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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
MightyMunki · 04/02/2018 12:42

Thanks for the advice BCF. Am doing a FD today as I’m on a course tomorrow. Good luck to all Sunday fasters.

juicygirly · 04/02/2018 14:37

Thanks bigchoc x just lying on the sofa feeling sorry for myself Grin how's the ankle?

mother hope your dd is ok now.

Hope snot duty has officially ended for all!

Bestbees · 04/02/2018 15:26

Thanks everyone.

6.5k run this morning then breakfast of apple and cheese (thanks whoever reminded me of that yumminess!). Massive roast dinner including pudding and will have soup and crackers and yoghurt for dinner.

Back on FD tomorrow and hopefully blip will melt away. Would love to see 9.10 by the 16th as seeing old friends!

BlueBelle123 · 04/02/2018 15:47

FD going well, lunch time arrived yummy smells started wafting in from the kitchen, my stomach started to rumble but I resisted and thought I'll wait 20 mins and if still hungry I will have something small, but lo and behold the hunger past and so I started to doing the hoovering just in case it decided to return!!

TalkinPeace · 04/02/2018 16:58

And Hunger DOES pass - it takes a bit of getting used to when you first stop snacking and grazing
but the long term health benefits are so, so worth it

BlueBelle123 · 04/02/2018 17:21

Talkin I'm just beginning to realise that........I've read on here a thousand times no snacking treats as part of meal no fizz and thought yea, yea yea in one ear and out the other but since the beginning of January I have been doing 2 FD's and 16:8 on NFD with no snacking and no fizz and it is so much easier than when I did 5:2 last year when on NFD anything went!!!

quackingduck222 · 04/02/2018 17:24

Wow well done Best that’s loads.

I’ve done 2miles and throwing a mini FD in due to the scales being very unforgiving this morning after Friday nights dinner even after a FD yesterday.

TIP - yes that’s very true. It takes a while to get used to. I find now I don’t fear hunger anymore but I do fear that stuffed full to bursting feeling and try my best to avoid it.

TalkinPeace · 04/02/2018 17:25

Bluebell
The health benefits of decent gaps between food are so significant - way over and above the weight loss part of 5:2
that its a lifestyle change worth making for its own sake

BlueBelle123 · 04/02/2018 18:10

Its the health benefits that have got me doing this WOE/L and when I'm fasting I just think of all the essential maintenance that is going on and hopefully also reversing some of the damage that no doubt my younger self inflicted on my body!

snailhunter · 04/02/2018 20:50

Well, I've had a lovely weekend - had a fantastic meal out yesterday evening. Fillet steak, triple cooked chips, cherry tomatoes, watercress, blood orange tart with chantilly cream and a lovely glass of wine. It was worth every single calorie and was consumed with no guilt whatsoever and so much genuine enjoyment. I do find this 'is it worth the calories' thing on NFDs really useful. It's stopped me eating so much rubbish and really enjoying the things I do eat.

And we picked up our new puppy this morning! He is absolutely gorgeous and I am looking forward to being totally distracted by him.

MightyMunki · 04/02/2018 21:07

Ending the day at 509, and looking forward to my NFD tomorrow.

quackingduck222 · 04/02/2018 21:13

That meal sounds amazing snail. I do think we enjoy our food so much more now. Almost savor every mouthful.

Ooh you got a puppy dog, what did you get? Love dogs.

quackingduck222 · 04/02/2018 21:16

Well done Mighty. Fabulous especially for a Sunday!

BlueBelle123 · 04/02/2018 21:43

First weekend FD and it was surprisingly OK kitchen closed at 460. Away next weekend so FD will have to be Tuesday and Thursday next week so alternate FD, that's quite scary!

Good luck to fellow Sunday fasters nearly there!

snailhunter · 04/02/2018 22:15

He is a little black cockerpoo quacking and has been so good thus far that I think I am being lulled into a false sense of security...

2kidsnopets · 04/02/2018 22:24

Sunday night check-in.
I've not caught up yet as had a busy weekend. Two fast days done and tdee the rest of the time.
My calorie deficit for the week is about 2800-3000 depending which tdee calculator you believe, but tomorrow is the moment of truth as it's the one week weigh-in.
Tomorrow is also my first fast of the week and might do two FD and a mini because I'm out for a meal on Thursday and everything on the menu looks pretty calorific.

quackingduck222 · 04/02/2018 22:37

Ah that’s lovely snail. I own a black poo too a Scottypoo. He’s the most gentle loving dog ever. Hope his first night goes well for you.

Good luck for tomorrow 2kids, we’re rooting for you.

Well done on your FD blue.

CheshireSplat · 05/02/2018 07:14

So, Monday weigh-in for me and it's a SV! 11 stone 1 1/2 which means I've lost a couple of lbs in January. My TDEE is 1600 so it was always going to be slow and I had a massive weekend blow out last week that I've recovered from and more. Phew! I took BVF's advice and MFPd everything. A couple of hundred over TDEE 2 days, few hundred under on 2 others, on it exactly one day and FDs the 2 others. And it's TOTM ish (or whatever you have when you have the coil) - boobs are so sore I'm sure there must be some water retention there so looking for a good result next week too.

I find TDEE quite easy on normal working days but it's easy to go over when I do anything out of the ordinary. I'll have to get used to that if I'm going to do this.

FD today - good luck all fellow fasters.

BlueBelle123 · 05/02/2018 07:22

Well done Cheshire on your loss and good luck for today!

Snail love cockerpoos, I use to have a cocker spaniel completely bonkers!

I've lost another 1lb so pleased with that.

Bestbees · 05/02/2018 07:34

So much sucess here well dobe all!

BcF hope your ankle is improving.

Snail i am sure the puppy will help you with the weight loss running around after it!

FD here. Weigh in showed 2lb gain after last weeks binging. Not too bad and hopefully will fall off this week. Good luck ti any other fasters. I am going for nothing except a stick cube at lunch. Dinner will be lots of stir fry veg and chicken. Will run tonight then early to bed! Need to nail this one properly. Also going for no sugar during the week as i thjnk that helps.

2kidsnopets · 05/02/2018 07:37

Morning all, SV here too!
81.7kg this morning, which means I'm down 2 kg (4lbs ish) after week one. And I had wet hair as I forgot to weigh before shower.
In reality a lot of that is probably bloat and water as I've not eaten bread, pasta, cake etc this week. But my jeans are definitely looser so it's all good.

I've slathered myself in my favourite (but stupidly expensive) origins ginger body cream in celebration and off to do kids brekkie. None for me as it's a FD.

Well done Belle and Cheshire on your SV.

quackingduck222 · 05/02/2018 07:51

Well done Cheshire, Blue and 2kids.

Best, today is a new week, chin up and keep ploughing on and it will be off in no time.

I’ve gained a lb too. I’m surprised it’s not shifted as I did a FD directly after and a mini yesterday. Ah well back to the drawing board this week.

snailhunter · 05/02/2018 07:58

Well done on the SVs everyone! FD for me. Puppy had a very good night! He cried a little bit but then went quiet for the whole night and is now happily running around like a loon.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2018 08:09

Morning all and good luck to the Monday fasters
I'm fasting today too.

Well done on your SVs, cheshire, belle, 2kids

cheshire averaging within TDEE on NFDs is an Important NSV

low TDEE
While in the weight-loss phase, indulgent weekends can cancel out the FD deficit
So better to have one weekly indulgent meal (iirc duck: you do this ? )

In the maintenance phase, 2 weekly FDs, even at 800, allow more indulgent weekends or social occasions

or post-meno (even on higher TDEE)
I'm 5'3', age 61 and obv post-meno, so I maintain with 2 FDs, even though I normally exercise 5-6 days weekly
Post-meno for me at least means FDs are essential for longterm weight management
Also, I fast for the many health benefits

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2018 08:11

Remember, duck: without the FD and mini, it would have been more
So they reduced the damage

OP posts: