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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 65: Zap holiday gain when replacement parts are calling from the fridge ? It even has a light to show you the cold pizza 😈 Let's fast & get lean together 😇

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/08/2016 19:25

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Chokose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight: 3D BMI body variations ripped to normal , Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for over 3 years )

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2016 11:59

Oh, that's a motivating winter coat NSV, MrD and a good exercise NSV
(we had 26C yesterday, so winter here seems far away ! )

Keep glugging water, stay sensible on your NFDs and focused on your FDs
==> you'll soon be back in fat-burning mode, with more SVs & NSVs

OP posts:
CountessOfStrathearn · 30/09/2016 12:42

A Friday faster checking in here. Just had a couple of cups of tea this morning and will have lunch once I have the DC in bed for their naps.

CrepeDeChineWag · 30/09/2016 13:47

Great stuff Halloween

I'm on a FD and struggling a bit. Had a really hectic week so I'm not up to much today which isn't helping. Just about to have a 'marmite drink'. Hate marmite Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2016 14:10

You all sound on track, Friday fasters Smile
Crepe You could gulp down the teasp Marmite neat, just as you would cough medicine - The BigM is your pre-emptive headache medicine

OP posts:
HalloweenQueen1 · 30/09/2016 15:13

Thanks BigChoc & Crepe - hope your holding out okay, I've always found Friday fasting difficult (psychological I think!) and I admire your commitment with the Marmite drink Wink keep it rolling nearly there Smile

fusspot66 · 30/09/2016 15:45

Had to abandon my FD due to incipient migraine
Grrrr

fusspot66 · 30/09/2016 15:46

Oops
Just read Bigchocs feedback and nearly choked on a cheese and onion crisp Blush

CrepeDeChineWag · 30/09/2016 15:54

It wasn't too bad in hot water - a lot of hot water! Unfortunately I've got my first FD headache despite the marmite medicine, but I'm 'ard, I can take it Grin. I'm on the countdown to my 4.15pm lunch and then my 8.15pm dinner. Tick. Tock.

Emison · 30/09/2016 16:02

Another 0.5lb off so I've lost 12lbs so far Smile

Clearskies99 · 30/09/2016 16:16

Don't worry BCF not gone awol, just been out on a very busy day!. All well here. Going to keep checking in regularly . Thanks for all the advice, definitely going to keep very focussed on not giving my body the 'easy' fuel of refined carbs.. not calorie counting, that just won't work for me to do it that way for a multiude of reasons. I know when I'm eating the right amount and when it's too much. Now understand much better why it's been tending towards too much recently and feel back on track. I am determined to train myself to eat less on a daily basis and keep going down that BMI warning scale.

Enjoy you r long weekend BCF Smile

Great NSVs MrD ! What a reminder about how far you have come already.

crepe I just lick the marmite of a spoon and glug it down like a tablet if i don't want to taste it tho' often for me tasting it is helpful, like I can taste it's helping my fasting body iyswim.

No snacking makes such a difference fusspot

Have a good weekend everyone Smile

Clearskies99 · 30/09/2016 16:18

well done emison
Keep busy crepe to take your mind off food
never mind fusspot about the FD you can reschedule Hope migraine passes soon. Drink lots of water

fusspot66 · 30/09/2016 17:31

Thanks.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2016 19:38

Well done on your SV and progress, Emison

< checks clear for good posture, shoulders back, thumbs at sides >

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2016 19:40

No need to give up crisps or choc on NFDs, Fusspot
Just have crisps with your meal and choc as your pud. Enjoy your meals more Smile

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 30/09/2016 20:38

Evening all,

a more successful day here - LOTS of water drank, a good run at lunchtime (nearly made it all the way up the one 'hill' ) yummy omelette for lunch.

Tomorrows plan is decluttering the DC's bedrooms and making a roast (switching days around as forgot about DS' rugby on Sunday)... if its dry we'll go pokemon hunting for a bit too to get a walk in.

Well done Clear!

Fusspot -hope the migrane buggers off soon

Well done on the SVs Halloween and Emerson

BCF - Its been pretty warm here too (even if the rain has started) so its currently feeling a little way off, but it has a way of sneaking up on me so thought I'd best get one before I forgot... oh and Sainsburys had 25% off TU clothing Wink

Toomanywheeliebinsagain · 30/09/2016 22:18

Hello all, checking in, now about a month in. Difference is incredible. Nailed both FD this week and was barely hungry. Seemed to have worked out that tea for breakfast, followed by a skinny soup from convent garden (250 cal a carton) x 2 for lunch and dinner does me fine. I saw an old friend yesterday and 'he was like you look great' (he's gay) and was telling my DH that I was looking hot. I have 3 FD before my DH big birthday, how to speed up looking hot? 3:4?

Toomanywheeliebinsagain · 30/09/2016 22:19

I have no scales so I can't say weight loss but am back to doctors for unrelated medical condition in a bit so can weigh in then

CountessOfStrathearn · 01/10/2016 08:13

Finished my FD at 1112 kcal, thanks to some mindless snacking while out with friends. I didn't really need or want to eat so I am a little annoyed with myself, compared to when I have happily and deliberately gone over. That said, I am still logging everything on MFP every day (I like charts!) and when I am eating consciously, I'm really not overeating. It is just when I eat for emotional or boredom reasons that I am going over, so I have definitely become more aware.

Overall in September, I lost 4.3kg (9.5lbs) and BMI is back down to 25, so I'm chipping away nicely at things and feel much more back to my usual pre-pregnancy self. Pregnancy is always very hard as I vomit right the way through so find it hard to eat well and have a couple of pregnancy-related conditions that make it hard to exercise, so I am feeling so much better overall getting back to eating well and exercising regularly.

Well done, toomany, that all sounds great. I wouldn't worry too much about weight as it sounds like it is really obvious that you are losing fat and looking really good.

mrdarcy, my exciting plan for this weekend sounds very similar -decluttering DC1's bedroom today and a roast dinner tomorrow!

I am a big Marmite fan but have never tried it as a drink. Will give it a go on Monday's FD.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2016 11:50

Congrats to Countess on your SV.
You now have insight into what helps your weight management and what can send you a little off track.

Congrats on your healthy lifestyle and compliments NSVs, Wheelie
Sounds like fasting is burning bodyfat.
5:2 often increases muscle mass slightly, as well as reducing fat, so it may take a few weeks for the GP scales to really catch up with the change in body composition.
However, a tape measure, especially for waist, would monitor the change, as does your clothes fit.

wrt your DH birthday:
I suggest since you have developed a system that suits you so well, that you continue with 5:2, just being especially mindful of making nutritious food choices on NFDs - go low GI and concentrate on cutting out snacks.

4:3 can be a useful tool in short bursts, to break a plateau or give a quick boost.
So no harm in trying it for a week or so. Just resume normal 5:2 if you feel stressed or notice bad habits creeping in:
moving to 4:3 can sometimes lead to poorer NFDs and getting off track, because it is much more restrictive - 3 FDs means most of the week is "dieting".

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 01/10/2016 22:44

Completely forgot to post the link to my interview on BBC Somerset on Thursday morn.

Clearskies99 · 02/10/2016 08:43

well done countess and wheelie.

Working hard to stay focussed here.

Lots of water and 3 healthy meals yesterday, although a larger breakfast than usual wasn't a good plan as it made me feel hungrier. But didn't snack (and was surrounded by delicious food all day) - NSV I reckon.Am experimenting alot with what works best for me at moment. Doing 16:8 when I can. Most important thing is focussing on what I am eating and if I am actually hungry or if it's something else like you say countess

Have a good day everyone Smile

OliveBranchCollins · 02/10/2016 12:13

Hi All
Things are starting to settle back down here which is good and I have maintained my weight for last few weeks.
I am only working from home on 2 days now and have realised that I am drinking less water and grabbing more carbs eg rice or pasta based lunches as they are easy to take to work. And of course it's harder to get up and wander about at work to keep my steps up I am averageing 6000 on work days and easily doing 10k on at home days.
I have taken on board BCFs advice to Darcy and Clear so I am cutting back on carbs and upping water again, recalculation TDEE and I will be leaving for work earlier so I can walk round the long way and come home the long way too.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2016 19:09

Well done on no snacks today, Clear
< approves straight postures and shiny buttons >

16:8 often helps because it cuts down the eating window, so less time between your 3 meals.
If you can reduce the starchy carbs and boost protein that would help you feel fuller. I enjoy mushy peas as my starchy carb, today with salmon and Mediteranean veg

Maybe meals of equal size would help - Many folk find a big breakfast makes them hungrier, especially if it's carby. Again, try more protein
Filling breakfasts: Scrambled eggs / veggy omelette / flaxmeal muffin (no other grain) / tinned sardines & grilled toms on wholegrain

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2016 19:16

That's a good plan to increase water and walking, olive
I agree pasta doesn't keep you full for long, being high GI.
I enjoy salad lunches, as it's still warm weather here - I usually have a huge mixed salad, balsamico / vinaigrette dressing and salmon or sliced steak, optionally add walnuts or slices of avocado, with an apple or tangerine for pud

OP posts:
Clearskies99 · 03/10/2016 07:45

Monday FD here will check in again this afternoon. Had the tired/bit of physical pain/ stress/hunger combo yesterday and ended up eating too much. Going to try a few things to help me sleep better. On a more positive note have nailed it on some of the previous NFDs last week and am doing 2 walks a day whatever else is going on

Well done olive for STS during difficult times.

Trying (even) more lentils/beans BCF on NFDs. More protein at breakfast helps on NFDs for sure

Have a good day everyone

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