5:2 Thread No. 65: Zap holiday gain when replacement parts are calling from the fridge ? It even has a light to show you the cold pizza 😈 Let's fast & get lean together 😇

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Chokose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight: 3D BMI body variations ripped to normal , Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,

optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for over 3 years )

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Thank you BigChoc I am hoping I will start losing again, I am not going to give up. I will be extra careful on NFD. I am teetotal so that helps. I will be more watchful of the type of food I eat on NFD.

Just need to be patient, thank you for your advice as always

Same here Dakota! DD1 is under instruction to shout at me if I reach for anything other than teabags in the kitchen as a result.

Really fancy some Yorkshire puds now. Might have to make some at the weekend...

After two weeks of not losing anything I have lost 1lb this week. That means 11.5lbs so far. I'm pretty chuffed with that

I've lost 1.5lbs this week. I've gone from 11.5 to 9.13 in 11 weeks. I'm 5"2 so the weight really shows. I'm really pleased to get under 10 stone, it feels like a real psychological victory. My next target is nine and a half stone and then I'll review from there. My appetite has changed on this way of eating and I no longer over eat on non fast days. It's a great feeling to finally have some control over what I put into my body as before I started this, I felt my appetite controlled me. This thread is great motivation.

I haven't eaten yet today...shall I just not bother? I am no more hungry than I was at 10am...

Dakota If you aren't hungry, don't eat - that applies to FDs and NFDs
Your body may be burning fat for fuel or just using up yesterday's meals.

Well done on your SV, Emison That gives you a good total loss. You stayed cool, on track and broke the 2 week plateau
That's encouraging for Daisies who has also had a 2 week sts

Well done on your SV too, onwego and on your important appetite NSV - you are in control now.
Your BMI is 25.4, v near to recommended range, so you'll soon have that milestone to celebrate too.

You started at 11.5 stone and you've already broken through to the 9s.
That's quick progress, nearly 2lb per week, so I expect those around you have really noticed the change.
You'll slow down as you get nearer to goal, but 9 stone sounds a good goal.

Thank you BigChocFrenzy

onwego - well done on your loss so far! I've lost about the same in the same time period but was a lot higher to start with.

I'm still hanging on in there - however, I just cannot track on any day of the week as my life feels too hard already! However, I am losing and if I stop then I will make a supreme effort to track again! Weekends are still a challenge as OH and his bad eating/shopping habits are around but this is mostly mitigated by not eating until after 2pm on one of the weekend days.

Today was my second FD of the week and by 6ish this eve I realised I had had a fairly sedentary day and only clocked up around 4k steps so I went out on an evening walk with the 3yo in the pushchair and the baby in a sling (and she's heavy!). Have no idea why the walk took so long, but we didn't get home til 2 hours later. Steps now at 11k

Well done to everyone else on a FD today - nearly the end of the day, and the end of the week now!

Well done on your SV, EagleRay You've found a system that fits your lifestyle

Noone need count NFD calories unless they stop losing for 2 weeks, or want to speed things up.

For most folk who over-eat, just cutting out snacks between meals is a simple way to get appetite and NFDs under control, without mfp

However, those whose "natural eating" is very junky and / or far above TDEE may need mfp for a reality check on why they aren't losing as expected.
For them, mfp is a useful training tool to learn new habits.

Onwego - that is fantastic. What a amazing achievement.

I've just looked at the diary and I've been fasting for 10 weeks nowshe in that time lost 8lbs 6. I'm really pleased with that as I've gone to a weight never seen before.

Without doing this I know I could not of got to this weight.

First FD of the week yesterday and not quite a pound off but I know it's going to go super slow from now on and just 3lbs away. Looking forward until Sunday's fast and getting on the scales Monday.

Have a great weekend everyone

Thank you! I'm one of those who has to log on mfp because my normal way of eating didn't match my tdee. As a result, I'm much more mindful about what I choose to put into my body. I was shocked to see just how many calories were in those innocuous muffins/cakes that you can easily pick up with a coffee. Plus I'm small so my eating v height was way out of kilter. I don't have a sweet tooth but it was easy to go along with friends/eat what others do as well as eat a lot of crisps and bread and cheese which I love! I genuinely didn't think my attitude towards food could change, as I felt my habits were so ingrained from childhood. The first month was hard and took a lot of planning but now it's a lot more intuitive. Love the words of encouragement on this thread - bigchoc, thank you

I'm on week 1 and it's a FD today and I'm finding it much harder than Monday (when I was full of it). I've planned out what I'm having for dinner and have split lunch into two so I had part 1 an hour ago and will have part 2 in hour. I have to go out later so dinner will be quite late hence the lunch split. I'm hungry!

Am I right in thinking that the first few weeks are just hard and that me finding FD hard already doesn't mean I can't do it? Did anyone else who have stuck to it feel the same when they first started?

Hi all haven't been around much as things are pretty hectic at the moment. I am keeping to the FD but weight loss has stalled it must be the stress
But a few months ago go I would have been stuffing my self silly and probably put on 7lb. So still very happy with how things are going

Quite normal, Crepe Most people need at least a couple of weeks to get used to fasting.
Just reassure yourself that your body has many tens of 1000s of stored calories for fuel and this is only one day at 500 cals.

Try to keep busy, so your mind is focused on something else and the hunger goes away for a while.
Don't snack or nibble - that increases hunger. Just eat your planned meal(s)

If you need to ease yourself in gradually with say 700 cals, that's fine.
Go at your own pace.

Chant one of the 5:2 mantras to yourself:
"I can have it tomorrow"

Congrats on your lowest weight SV, Stripey Progress is bound to be slow in the lower BMI range

That's an important discovery, onwego
Each coffee shop muffin, cookie, fancy latte can be a 500 cal calorie bomb, with almost no nutrient value. In fact more anti-nutrients in the sugary fatty gunk.
Those kinds of snacks are the worst for piling on the lb.

Short women have to be especially careful - a tall active male OH can easily have a TDEE double yours, so eating the same amounts would be a disaster

Olive You were losing only a week or so ago, so it's far from being a plateau.
Since you have lost quite a bit of weight the last few weeks (the real SV with non-wonky scales !) your body may pause to rebalance, especially when under great stress.

Also, since you are stressed, maybe you are eating more on NFDs, going instinctively for fatty sugary food to boost mood (temporarily)
That could mean you are eating back the FD calorie deficit.

Whatever the reason for the temporary sts, try to eat meals with plenty of veg to nourish your stressed body. Add beans & lentils.
Also, boost protein to feel full - eat protein at every meal

Do not snack

Thanks Bigchoc I have had a very lazy day which hasn't helped and I'm due on (step away from the chocolate!l I've also realised that I haven't drunk enough water.

I'm glad you've bought up the 1000s if reserve calories conundrum. It's so odd that when your body is obviously drawing on it's reserves you feel hungry. Why is this??

Yes, Ican have it tomorrow!

Crepe I'm on about week three and I'm definitely finding it easier. Probably will end day at around 450 calories. No way could I have done that last week.

Wanted to share a (slightly longwinded) NSV.

Just been catching up on old 5:2 threads from before DC5 (I have namechanged since) because I wanted to compare how I was doing.

Looks like I am in size 12 jeans at 4 months postpartum this time although I am slightly heavier than I was when I got back into them at 8mo last time, so there must be fat burning going on and I am looking and feeling much more toned with both 5:2 and decent exercise.

FD tomorrow - saying it here so I need to stick to it! DC5 didn't sleep well last night so feeling tired today so that's never good for self control!

Reassuring wheeliebins

I am SO glad that I planned ahead and my chipotle prawn dish tasted amazing.

Am looking forward to my 2 NFD over the weekend. I have to use MFP to keep on track as I got into some very bad habits but am feeling much better about it all now.

I have actually been surprised how easy it has been today. I'm a full time worker with two small children. I never have time to eat anyway

That's a nourishing, tasty 2nd FD, Crepe Sounds like you'll soon get used to this WOE
You'll remember to keep drinking water next time - start the day with a glass each FD & NFD.

Well done on your FD too, wheelie You are really in the fasting swing now.

Well done on your NSV, Countess Sounds like you have more lean mass - which weighs more than the same colume of fat - and less bodyfat.
Good luck on your FD tomorrow.

Hi, I would like to join you if that's ok? Been reading a lot of the 5:2 threads and decided it's time to take the plunge!

I'm 5'2 and 9st10, which is the heaviest I've ever been (apart from pregnancy). My baby is nearly 2 and although I lost the baby weight quickly, after stopping BF and comfort-eating my way through a marriage breakup (divorce and house sale/move still ongoing!) I've gained over a stone. I'd like to get below 9 stone, ideally nearer 8 as I have a small frame.

I have a wardrobe of clothes that no longer fit and can't afford new ones. So that's my motivation!

I work PT and will be trying to fast on one workday (Mon) and one work from home day (Wed). I can't face it on a day when I have to look after my child...

My eating habits are dreadful - since becoming single I have eaten junk, binged and drunk too much wine. I'm looking forward to being accountable here and making a fresh start, along with my new flat (hopefully completing next month!)

Welcome, Kokoko
That sounds a sensible plan for your FDs
Sorry to hear about the stress you've been through; other folk have also come on these threads after a breakup - working towards a healthy lean bod, as part of their making a new life.

From your story, I think our main 5:2 tips would be especially important for you:

• Eat meals, no snacking or grazing
• Start each day with a glass of water & keep drinking lots more water

Come on board Kokoko

5:2 is a great way to break bad habits and develop new ones and get your appetite under control.

Always lots of support here especially from BigChoc

I am doing a FD today, going ok so far