5:2 Thread No. 65: Zap holiday gain when replacement parts are calling from the fridge ? It even has a light to show you the cold pizza 😈 Let's fast & get lean together 😇

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Chokose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight: 3D BMI body variations ripped to normal , Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,

optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for over 3 years )

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

After a year of falling off the wagon and putting on a stone - I'm back although a little larger than before and not before time.

My excuses are

1. It's been a stressful year with DD1 doing her A2's and waiting for results
2. It's been a stressful year with DS1 doing his GCSE's and waiting for results.
3. Had to go through the uni process and get DD settled in uni.
4. Had to go through the 6th form process and get DS settled and happy with A level choices.
5. Job reshuffle and having to go back to work full-time
6. It's been a lovely summer in the south east and I've just drunk too much wine and eaten too many crisps and peanuts - oh but I did enjoy it

So held my breath jumped on the scales this morning and it's official I'm 10st 11.8lb - shit, shit, shit - didn't take long to rack that up

So here we go - first fast today and a start towards my more streamlined body. I'm not going to give up - I can't, my clothes don't fit any more and I can't afford any new ones as DD1 is costing me a fortune at uni!

I will probably need help along the way but you were all so helpful and supportive last time, I'm quite looking forward to getting back to it.

That's a bummer, Hugger Sabotaged by rotten Asda veg.
I suggest you complain there and say how you had to throw away an entire meal you'd prepared ; if they've any sense of decency / customer service, they should give you a £5 voucher

608 cals is v good in the circumstances
Being a shameless slattern in the kitchen, I have low carb longlife meals stacked in my cellar, for when disaster / illness / laziness strikes

Welcome back, Pandarific, SilverBeetle
It must be infuriating having to lose it all over again

Consider: if you keep regaining, then your "normal eating" is just too much, so:

Whenever you return to your old WOE, you return to your old Waist and Weight

Change your mindset to avoid the tiresome Yo-Yo

Regard 5:2 as your Permanent WOE

Even on maintenance, have a clear plan, e.g. 6:1 and weekly weighing.
Crossing fingers / spinning your prayer wheel is not a maintenance plan.

Any holidays are temporary breaks - schedule an FD the day after you return.
Even during holidays: No snacking. Any treats or booze must be part of a meal

Don't stop the WOE because of stress, kids etc - with 2 kids you'll have decades of them doing tests, exams, uni, starting jobs, renting / buying, weddings, GCs .....
There will always be stress with your life or theirs, stress with wars & catastrophes on Planet Earth.

Decide you'll stay on this WOE whatever life throws at you

Wise words BigChocFrenzy - might print your post out and stick it above my desk as a constant reminder.

Well done, knowler, your no snacking NSV is so important for longterm weight management and healthy insulin metanolism.

I've nailed my FD at 800 cals (I do 2 x 800 FDs for maintenance) and now I'll enjoy an early night
Have you closed the kitchen too, Onwego, knowler, hugger, SilverBeetle, Pandarific ?

I should have checked in this morning but it was busy. Another (BFing) FD completed at 1020 kcal.

A number of people have commented to me about how well and healthy I am looking, and I am genuinely feeling pretty good about how I am eating and exercising. There is definitely still chocolate eating happening but I am really making sure that I am eating much more good fat and protein than before. Lost another 0.7kg so things are definitely plodding on down and I've really not noticed any effects on my supply. I think I probably will have to tighten up on FDs once DS is weaning to get back to my final weight but I'm happy that things are nicely going in the right direction.

Stripey Yoghurt, kefir, eggs are all great, cheese is good, but research suggests milk is not that great for adults (the research that vegans quote against dairy is really caused by milk).
So, personally I always go for unsweetened nut milks, because I'm satisfied they are a healthy choice.

I've just found a cashew milk at my local healthfood shop, a pleasant treat and still cheaper than a much smaller Costa latte.

Well done on your SV and your compliments NSV, countess
No need to change anything, while you are burning fat and feeling so good.

Thanks BCF will pass the message onto mum.

And will shop around for almond milk as I don't use that much. I'm saving £150 by not smoking so I'm sure my milk won't brake the bank.

Omg I have so been missing out on that low fat rubbish I've been consuming for years. Just had full fat Greek yogurt OMG beautiful so much nicer and creamier than low fat. Such a treat and it's not really as I can have it everyday apart from FDs

Stripey I noticed that Aldi have started stocking almond milk beside the soya milk, if you have one close by. Didn't notice the price but is bound to be not too bad. Their Greek yogurt in the flat tub is also amazing, I prefer it to the total one. Bought the total one this week since I only need a little portion this week and I am feeling a bit disappointed it isn't as creamy.

Countess great to be losing and getting compliments, woo!

FD2 today, yesterday went well but was hungry at bedtime. Woke up this morning even more hungry! Have succumbed to a diet coke for some no cal caffeine and going to have a cup of tea (with stevia) at tea break. Looking forward to my tuna and egg salad for my tea already

Am away on holiday on Thurs until next Mon so fast days next week will be Thurs and Fri for a wee change.

Is this the thread to join if new to 5:2?
I started yesterday after a particularly grim weigh in at the Drs. I have yo-yo tendancies and am sick of it. I was 20lbs lighter at Easter than I am now following a 'successful' 6 month period of exercise and weight loss. Am now exactly where I was a year ago. Again.

Haven't read all of this thread but have dipped in and out some of the others on this board and am feeling inspired and motivated.

Yesterday was a FD and I found it easy, but then I always find the first week or so of weight loss easy as I'm motivated at that point.

I probably won't post much but wanted to place mark to keep track. I also find weighing myself every week very unhelpful and demotivating so I will just stick with the advise on her and get on with it. Hopefully within 6 weeks I should see some improvements.

Starting Weight: 82.5 kg (just over 13 stone)
Bust: 40.5
Waist: 35.5
Hips: 42
Widest Part: 45.25
Thighs: 27.25

Quick question ... on FD I would prefer to spread my calories out throught the day rather than save them up for one meal. Will this have a detrimental effect?

Welcome, Crepe You've come to the right place. This is the current main 5:2 thread
On an FD, have whatever meal split / timing makes it sustainable for you.
Many folk find it is easier to just have supper, or to have lunch & supper. Whatever works for you.

What would slow down weight - and be unhealthy - is not food timing, but food quality. So, on FDs, no alcohol or junk food (cake, biscuits, crisps, sweets etc)

Yoyo hapoens if you regard 5:2 as a temporary diet, something you do only until you return to "normal" eating. However, for most folk, their "normal" makes them overweight.
So, once you get to goal, your maintenance plan might be 6:1 or daily eating within TDEE or .... but can't be your old WOE:

If you return to your old WOE, you return to your old Weight & Waist

Ain't that the truth.

I hear what you're saying about booze and junk food. Yesterday I had the following which I thought was pretty healthy amd came to slightly over 500 cals.

100 ml skim milk (for tea)
No breakfast
Lunch: veg soup
Dinner: feta cheese, red pepper, cucumber, cherry tomato, apple.
Snack: ryvita with a thin layer of hummus and a mini baby bel.

Does that sound ok?

I closed the kitchen on just under 500 calories last night. Not fasting today, had a breakfast bap plus a cakey thing from a coffee shop for breakfast so not great - what's even more offensive was the cakey thing wasn't even nice. Bastards used cooking chocolate!

Had a beef and veg soup for lunch though and am taking it back to healthy balanced meals this evening, with some baked trout, veggies and new potatoes.
Will do another fast tomorrow.

Hi BigChoc, unfortunately I didn't close the kitchen after my blip yesterday. I caved and had some toast with peanut butter. Came in at just over 1000 calories so will have an extra sub-1000 calorie day this week to make up for it as well as my usual FD on Thursday.

I'm going to Tesco tomorrow though with a list (and am categorically not allowed to buy anything that's not on said list!) and plan to spend the afternoon making veggie chilli and soups to freeze down so I'll always have something on hand in case of further culinary disasters.

Having said that, I jumped on the scales today for my weekly weigh in and despite yesterday's blip I've lost 4lb this week I never managed to lose that much in a week on slimming world! That's given me all the motivation I need to keep going!

Hey all - NFD today and just had the 'vegan superfood' option from work cantine - they like to cater for all tastes Was very good - small portion quinoa, chickpeas, humous and edame beans. very tasty.

Feeling a bit overwhelmed at the min today though and trying to make good food choices is going to be tricky this week: not sure if I should have come off my medication for PND when I did, so going back to docs to make sure all is ok. At least I will be able to report a small weight loss to the GP!

Well done on a healthy 1st FD, Crepe Good start.

Well done too on your return to fasting, Pandarific

Congrats on your SV, Hugger Excellent progress
That mini-FD (sub-1000) still gave a decent deficit for the day and pnut toast is pretty healthy.
I suggest you just move on and nail your Thursday FD, no need to add another mini this week, or it can become a chore - 5:2 is sustainable because you only "diet" on 2 days, so I suggest you keep the 5 NFDs.

Congrats on your SV too, Knowler and a very tasty & healthy NFD.
If you are recovering from PND, try to relax and think of food as something to nourish your body
It's absolutely fine to take it easy and lose weight gradually

This is a WOE, not a race
Health is our # 1 priority here.

Pamper yourself with little non-food treats if you can on FDs:
New nail colour, hairstyle / colour, facemask, download a new song or book, even just a peaceful soak in bubblebath or perfumed bath crystals

Hi everyone, hope it's okay if I join

I've been reading about 5:2 for a while now, it sounds great and easy to stick with so I have decided to finally take the plunge, I've been eating better this week, getting to grips with MFP and have also got back into making my home made soups but I'm going to start properly from Monday.

I was 11stone at last weigh in a couple of days ago which is the heaviest I have ever been! And at just under 5ft it's really not a healthy weight for me. I'm really unhappy with how I look and feel. I want to lose around 3 stone, then go from there as to whether I need to lose more or not.

I struggle to stick with things, I did slimming world for a short while and I did lose but also missed certain things that I would eat usually. Not sure how often I'll post here but I do find reading about all your experiences very interesting and motivating.I'll be sure to check in occasionally!

I would also like to lose 3 stone and have just started imwithspud we can motivate each other!

Brilliant Crepe! Good luck with your journey

Welcome, spud You & Crepe sound good buddies already
5:2 may be the WOL that works for you if you can't cut favourite foods out permanently - many folk on 5:2 now enjoy food they've deprived themselves of for years, e.g. full fat yoghurt

You "diet" 2 days per week and on those days you should avoid junk & booze.
On the other 5 days, no type of food is banned
To lose weight, you just need to make sure you don't eat back the calorie deficit from the 2 FDs.
Eating meals & cutting out snacks between helps this - just make your fav "treats" or booze part of a meal.

Thanks for the welcome BigChoc. I found SW quite good for the most part but I definitely missed things, for example a couple of slices of buttered white bread toast at breakfast, or some bread and butter with a bowl of soup, but on SW that would be practically all my daily 'syns' used up before the day had even begun. At least with 5:2 it sounds like I can still enjoy those things on NFD's so I'm not 'depriving' myself completely

I seem to have come to a standstill. Never recovered from TOTM. Can't get my weightloss started again. I am monitoring what I eat on FD and NFD. Making sure I am under TDEE on NFD and being careful on FD. I haven't eaten back on calories on NFD. I lost 5lbs initially and now nothing for past two weeks.

I am on a FD today. Going to stick with it and just hope it starts to shift again

The only other change I can think of is that I now eat only twice a day whether a NFD or FD. Breakfast and dinner. No longer have lunch anymore. But surely that wouldn't make a difference?

Daisies Eating just twice a day should help, not hinder. So you are doing the right thing here.

Check you have calculated TDEE with the OP caclulator and with activity level set at one level below what you think (Mosely's calc & advice);
also that you don't eat back exercise cals in addition to this - or you would be counting them twice

If you really have included all food & drink on NFDs, so you know you are within TDEE, then it just takes matter patience
Some people lose in fits & starts, not linearly, but end up losing the same amount as other folk.

Weight anyway fluctuates naturally a few lb - undigested / digested food, water retention, hormonal swings - so a 1lb weekly loss can easily be hidden.
Some women fluctuate several lb over a month due to hormonal changes and may also take 2 FDs to lose totm retained water.

Also, a large loss in week1 can mean your body rebalances / consolidates loss a couple of weeks before losing more e.g. example of a man losing 19lb in week1, but then nothing for the rest of the month, the only another 5-6 lb in month 2.

Some folk lose without much effort.
Others really need to watch type of food, e.g. really minimise junky sugar carby food & alcohol, at least until your plateau ends

Catching up with Bake Off on a fast day : Big mistake! HUGE!