5:2 Thread number 53: You won't get the bum you want by sitting on the one you have. Come join us ! You may not reach your goal next week, but you'll be closer than you are now.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced on BBC Horizon on August 2012:
Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means somewhere around the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

For most folk, 5:2 results in a weekly 3,000 calorie deficit, so averages 1 lb loss. However, some folk may lose much more quickly / slowly, or in fits & starts.
Initial weight loss may be much quicker, especially if you have a lot of weight to lose.

When you are within a healthy BMI range and just want to trim a few more lb, progress may be much slower and you may need to monitor carefully that you don't average above TDEE on non-fast days.

ACRONYMS & CALCULATORS:

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight normally needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI ( Body Mass Index ) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men) or 1000 cals for BF
If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful website or app to track food & drink caloriesi

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this over the week's NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that to maintain our new healthy weight longterm requires a permanent change in how we eat.

HOW TO START
==========

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator above as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators
Calorie Counter: mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Good2Know
Alcohol: Calc Safe , Calc Units
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Body Fat: Calc

FAQs / Tips:

• WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, just count any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice.

Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are good though!

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF. If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals

• To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,

optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.

• Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, have past or present EDs, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Browse previous 5:2 threads in the fasting section

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s thread collects practical tips and info we have gained over all the 5:2 threads. It is especially useful for newbies.

Inspirational: eatriskier’s Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.
Read to boost your motivation.
Add your own when you have lost weight too

Recipes: frenchfancy has collected FD recipes from all the threads.
Post your own here too.

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has a Thread for advice & support on combining 5:2 with a healthy exercise regime.
The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Maintaining: talkinpeace has a Thread for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining.
Some of those sharing experiences have been maintaining for 2 years, which shows 5:2 is sustainable longterm.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting
====================

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was fat, not muscle, which is unusually good for a diet.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease
Also this ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Thanks, will probably just eat sensibly next week then!

Orange and olive oil!

Old lady eating habits : my grandmother and her sisters all lived till their late 90s. Their mother lived to 100.
They all had the same eating rule : half of all the ingredients in a day should be raw - which meant salad with every meal.

Tea habits
Its lucky I do not count the milk in my tea on a FD - I've just finished my 7th cup, three of which were in my pint mug cup

Curvydragon
As Bigchoc says, 5:2 is for ever, not just for weight loss.
As you have a fair bit to shift, there is a magic trick that will start you on the path to happy weight for ever.
Just do two fast days a week
BUT
Work out your Sedentary TDEE for your utterly ideal happy weight
and see whether you can keep your meals within that limit on another three days a week
leaving at least one splurge day per week
and one day at current TDEE (which will of course drop over time)

That way you'll already be eating like the lean and mean you when you get there and so maintaining for the rest of your life will be a doddle

7th cuppa < crowns tip the 5:2 Tea Queen > - unless anyone can beat that.

Amazing to hear about your gran and her sisters, presumably early 20th C. My parents were born around the end of WW1 - they were oldish when I came along. It was common to die in childhood or middle age then.

I suspect you chose the right genes and 5:2 helps you cope with the changed food environment since then

Hello everyone.
I'm back yo fasting after so long. I've not really put back the weight but I need to urgently shift the last 10kg in time for my 40th next month.
So much to learn here an d so much inspiration.
fasting will be easy this time as I'm fasting for religious reasons Wednesdays and Fridays and so that automatically is my fast days but I plan on adding M on days as occasional fasts or mini fasts as the case may be.
tomorrow we welcome our new president (i'm Nigerian) and it's a public holiday but I'll be fasting so no feast for democracy day for me which is fine by me.
I can see that the old timers are still here encouraging us all. So glad to be back, I hope to this this for life.
Have a great fast day all fasters.

Bigchoc
My grandmother died in 2009 , her older sister in 2008 and her younger sister also in 2009. Great grandmother died in 1965.

Genes are all well and good but my parents generation have had a rather bad run of luck with cancer so I take nothing for granted.

I decided on a 16:8 today and will do the same tomorrow. It wouldn't be easy to find a sensible breakfast at the airport on Saturday am, and I'm in charge of 2 DC and a flying phobic DH so I need my wits about me. I'm going to put 5:2 on hold next week in Spain (visiting family) but not go mad eating everything in sight. I'll do a 16:8 if we're going out for lunch as I don't want to lose touch with the feeling that it's ok to feel hungry and I won't faint!

fusspot, enjoy dinner and eat something good and nourishing and tasty at the restaurant. This is a way of life and eating at restaurants/feasting is part of normal life - we just shouldn't do it every day, as many of us do! Sounds like you have a sensible plan sorted for the next few days and your holiday.

curvy, hope you can get your head round things. It is perfectly possible to be very overweight and malnourished from eating (too much of) the wrong things, so giving your body wholesome, good food on NFDs should be healing as well. I imagine it will take quite a shift in thinking though, but you have made the first step! Well done.

I drink loads of redbush tea on FDs but I am not sure if I could drink 7 pints of the stuff, talkininpeace!

stripytees said "If you're worried about the sugar from fruit, eat it with something that has fats. This has been tried and tested by a friend who has T2 diabetes and checks his blood sugar often - if he eats something sugary with fats, it won't spike his blood sugar like pure sugar would."

I'm actually a diabetes specialist and this is definitely something we tell people about, to the point that if you are going to have something quite fatty, we suggest either taking the insulin not at the start of the meal, but about a third of the way through, or dividing it up so you take 2/3 at the start and 1/3 in the middle, as the fats slow the absorption of the carbs so much so too much insulin at the start without the glucose spike straight off can lead to a hypo while you are eating!

Another 1000 kcal fast for me tomorrow. I went over my TDEE a little yesterday as I was out for dinner with friends but have been within it on NFDs.

I've got MFP set for a sedentary TDEE but I do eat my exercise calories if I want because I haven't put in that I am BFing, so as long as the scales keep trailing downwards back to my pre-baby weight, I am happy. If things do stagnate, I'll rethink that and perhaps reduce my calories on fast days a little more. (Was at 68.8kg last Thursday, 68.0kg today.)

A mini SV here today - another 1lb down this week. I'm also now only 1 inch off having my waist at half my height which will definitely feel good.

Hi everyone

I've been lurking on this thread over the past few days and managed my first fast day yesterday. I was surprised how well it went as was expecting to feel awful but I felt fine, actually better than usual after lunch as I didn't have the normal post lunch slump! I had a slight headache in the evening but will now be stocking up on marmite to counteract that on my next fast day, which will be Monday.

There are some great tips on this thread and its inspirational to see how many of you this WOE is working for. I'm hoping to lose about 10 pounds to a stone and usually find it hard to keep on track, hopefully with 5:2 I can actually have my cake and eat it!

Hello checking in on an endorphin high! Had an extremely good FD so far, ate nothing until my egg just now, also did a fairly tough workout straight after work. Just about to put DD to bed, then making my dhal soup.
Welcome yet more newbies! We're getting a bit of a reputation I think

TiP I think you're the tea queen yes, don't you errol?

todays fast day went awry from carelessness. We had friends round and I made a big plate of veg but screwed up with too many shrimps and by absentmindedly opening a bottle of 0% beer again, since company was around. Still coming in at 650 so it can be a mini-FD.

Am proud at managing to make a cake and not eat any mix though! It smells delicious. The gang better leave me a bit to eat tomorrow ... :)

Evening all, I love checking in at the end of the day and having loads of news to read Closed my second fd with a total of 600, managed a 3 mile jog this morning as well plus another few thousand steps. I've managed to leave the scales to one side this week and am terrified curious to see what they report. I lost .8 of a pound last week, and this week has been ok'ish, only 1 proper fast but I think I pulled it back in on the other days. Need to keep my wits about me over my long weekend, but I think I'll be ok. Damn I'm nervous about the scales, it's like I think it's going to punish me for not visiting it on my normal daily basis! Dope

Welcome, Dustwitch and well done on your 1st FD.

and welcome back Baloo Good to see you again. I wondered how you were doing and I think of you when I hear news about Nigeria.

Congrats on your SV, Chevron and so near to that important waist milestone.

Sounds a sensible holiday plan, fusspot Have a great time and tell us all about it

Meerka 650 cal FDs are a decent attempt imo. In fact they are an option for those doing b2b, i.e. the Michelle Harvie studies on their version of 5:2

Well done on your FD so far, not2b, confused Not long to go.

not2b You are the boss. Don't let those pesky scales nag you. If you find it less stressful, go by clothes fit, lock the scales in a cupboard and just weigh even monthly.

Congrats on your SV, Dino The1000-cal FDs currently give you a decent rate of loss while BFing.
If you plateau you could raise TDEE to lightly active each NFD and stop eating back exercise cals. Maybe 800-900 cal FDs too.

I've had a really good NFD today, even had a little ice cream cone at the swings with my little one without freaking out about the calories. (I logged everything and still came in within TDEE)

Looking forward to tomorrow's FD at work.

Good luck weighing in Not2! Despite a tricky start to the week I'm optimistic I may have clawed back the 10-day hiatus did after a good couple of days.
Bedtime for me now and I'm more tired than usual on a FD, but I've been groggy all day. Hopefully I'll sleep right through to breakfast time.
Well done mrsmugoo, NFDs can be tricky blighters. Although I'm very much looking forward to mine tomorrow!
Night all.

Well done on your FD, confused and your NFD, MrsMugoo - yes, learning to eat within TDEE can be the toughest part, but it trains you for maintenance later.

It always gives me a real boost to read about how you guys are all doing!

Well done and welcome to the first time fasters and a pat on the back to the old timers too!

Just back from my circuit training class. I'm on target for 4 workouts this week and have been planking daily. I'm now up to 1 minute 20 secs. Hopefully this will improve my non existent press ups!

The emergency action plan is going well. Did 2 B2B FD and plan on doing ADF for the next week. (I've been porking out big time and need to shift the excess pounds quickly to fit into my clothes! I do NOT usually advocate ADF and after next week I'll be back to regular 5:2).

My DH is working away from home just now. He is either a couch potato or a reclusive runner! Was really pleased to hear today that he and a group of his workmates have been getting together at the end of their shift and working out together!

I need to get a bit more au fait with calories then I can relax a bit. Have checked online too many times today! Used a handy hint from MN though and ate at Yo Sushi while out shopping - calorie counts on the menu for everything. Am drinking a glass of wine - 1000 cals for food today. I'm having another FD tomorrow - I'm not working tomorrow but will be busy decorating - to kick start myself but will stick to Mon/Wed from next week as that works out with work etc. I'm not thin yet, but I AM 3 days closer to it than I was on Monday night as the thread title says. I can do this!

Looking forward to reading everyone's news tomorrow.

Thank you BCF so good to hear that from u, im honoured.
I've missed you all on here Tip, BW, Whiskers, Errol and many others. I wonder what's up with BSSH.
I can also see so many newbies, stick to it guys cos it works. I get told I've put on weight even though i weigh the same as when I looked skinny to them- the difference is I now have muscles while losing weight, all thanks to 5:2.

Baloo Be proud that you are a strong woman.
Muscle weighs more than the same volume of fat. So if you are the same weight but more muscular, then you will be smaller, but with more visible muscles and tone.
Some people may feel threatened / jealous by this, but that's their problem.

Excellent progress with the excercise, Maz

Great attitude, GoingMad We need to think longterm:
Progress with weight is a usually succession of small steps, maybe with a few pauses. It all adds up after a while and then you suddenly see how far you've come.

Well done Mazzle that is good going. I can never usually manage more than 3 workouts a week.
3.25lb off, woo hoo!! Honestly didn't expect such a good result. Nearly back to my lowest weight (1.25lb to go). Very chuffed.
Good luck Friday fasters.

Just did my Friday weigh in and I'm up 2 pounds

I changed my FDS this week and had 2 calorie heavy days midweek. Fasted yesterday.
I have been under the weather this week and didn't manage any of my usual exercise so I'm hoping that the gain is temporary.
Not sure whether to do another fast day today or just carry on as usual and cut out the snacking on NFDs and see what happens next week.
I've not had TOTM for 3 months thanks to new contraceptive pills so I can't even blame that.

Well done to everyone on their losses and NSVs and good luck to the Friday fasters

Congrats on your SV, confused That's a big loss. Probably some of the added weight was retained water, due to eating a lot of carbs during your various celebrations.

Well done confused, that's fantastic! Commiserations mrsw, that does suck but maybe it's just fluid and..ahem..waste. Just keeping in trucking, it'll come good.
Drum roll for Friday WI....which reported no change from last week. I feel strangely ok with that, I think I have a small amount if waste in my system so maybe there's a .25 of a pound that might be waiting to leave but never mind. So in 2 weeks I've lost .8 of a pound. I know weight loss isn't linear, your body doesn't give a damn it's Friday and my WI. I had a few blips along the way, so I got out what I put in, in a manner of speaking! Back on it like a car bonnet Good filling breakfast that should keep me going until lunch, will be treating myself to something tasty but not too big. Having my Dad over for dinner tonight and have a cake ready for pudding, will be saving all my cals to enjoy that meal. Parkrun in the morning. Hope everyone else is feeling in good form today and looking forward to the weekend

Thanks all. Yes BigChoc I always say 'easy on, easy off' on these occasions.
Hope your gain is one of those, mrsw.
Not2 are you MFPing on NFDs too? When I did 5:2 previously, going overboard on NFDs was my downfall. Here's hoping you get a big loss next week.