Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
BigChocFrenzy · 28/04/2014 21:25

Welcome, Miffy
Smile
You can do more than one exercise per day. see how you feel.

Your 1 min intervals sound quite HIIT, but on 1-2 days per week do this BEFORE anything else:
. Few mins warm up jog
. 20 sec 100% flat out, 20 secs walk. Repeat.
. Start at 2 intervals, build up to maximum of 8. Intensity is much more important than number of intervals.
. Walk 2 mins
. That's it, but you can add a short run if you want AFTER.

On another 1-2 days per week:
. Few mins warm up jog
. Rope-skip briskly for 2-5 mins. 1 min walk.
. Repeat once
. Walk 2 mins and do what you want afterwards.

ALSO do some bodyweight strength training 1-2 non-consecutive days per week:
. Try to do Big Girls (full press-ups) . See OP if you are just starting.
. Do ATG (Arse To Grass) i.e. deep squats. Start with 2 sets of 5 and build up.
. Do plank. Start at 20 sec.
. Do tricep dips on a step or bench. Start with 2 sets of 5.

Let us know how you get on.
Smile

OP posts:
MazzleDazzle · 28/04/2014 22:00

Miffy when I started HIIT I had a BMI of 31 and hadn't exercised at all in three and a half years! I managed, you will to. I started going to a HIIT class 3x a week and couldn't keep up at all, but the instructor and momentum of the class inspired me. 4 months later and I am among the fittest in the class! Now I also go jogging and do a circuit training class too.

Incidentally I signed up for the Beast Race when I was an unfit porker Shock. Clearly I am an optimist!

I know I should eat healthily, so I do try, but sometimes fail. I love exercise though! It keeps me on track. How anyone can stick at this WOL with diet alone and no exercise is beyond me. I could never manage!

ErrolTheDragon · 28/04/2014 23:41

Miffy - you can run uphill for a minute ...repeatedly? Uh, for sure you can do HIIT.

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 29/04/2014 12:09

Errol - that's what I thought!

First exercise class today - core ball. Weights, squats, some HIIT. I really enjoyed it, although not the I got from a couple of the middle-aged women who are clearly regulars when I unwittingly picked 'their' space. That is why I have often avoided the gym but I found I couldn't give a monkey's this morning.

BC I will try your HIIT as described above later and let you know how I get on!

MazzleDazzle · 29/04/2014 12:49

I know Ali it's so petty!

I have a similar issue in my class, only it's regarding 'partners'. It's just like being in the school playground again. The unspoken rules would rival the UN!

Miffytastic · 29/04/2014 15:45

Ah thanks folks. I'm feeling all inspired now. FD today but will aim to do a blast HIIT skipping when in home later. I used to enjoy skipping - last did it when I was travelling in Thailand and Australia and on a weight loss mission and couldn't get to the gym, or even go running in some places.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/04/2014 22:18

Well done on your 1st class, Alibaba. You'll be amazed at your progress within a few weeks.

Strange, I've been a gym bunny for 15 years and never once witnessed the school playground "regular friend / place" looks
(but I do concentrate 100% whether work / food / books / gym, so maybe they gave up trying to get me to notice !)

If exercisers have time to be silly, they're not training hard enough.

OP posts:
Alibabaandthe40nappies · 29/04/2014 22:46

Didn't manage to fit in the HIIT - had to do paperwork for accountant, yuck!

But DH and I just both tried press ups and plank. He can do both, I can do neither!

My tummy muscles split when I had my second baby, which I am sure doesn't help.

Will try again tomorrow Grin

Raskova · 30/04/2014 08:00

Hi guys

Anyone know anything about fat burners???? Thinking of taking them but am nervous I'll go to the gym, overheat and then die.

Another thing I'm nervous of is my heart rate. When doing my tabata/intervals, my heart gets to 195. Is that too high? That's according to the hand sensors on the machines.

Thinking of buying a cheap heart rate monitor if anyone can recommend?

ErrolTheDragon · 30/04/2014 08:49

Ali - for the planks you may find it easier to start with if you have extended arms rather than down on your forearms ... or the other way round, different people seem to find one easier than the other. Press-ups... do inclined press-ups and work downward. I'm getting closer....

Raskova - 'fat burners' look a bit iffy to me. I found some info here which gives some ideas of the downsides. Personally I'm extremely Hmm about the 'herbal = safer' idea. Do these pills really offer anything more than a couple of strong coffees or high-caffeine green tea would? (there is evidence that caffeine prior to training helps - there was a piece in the saturday times this weekend).

MazzleDazzle · 30/04/2014 09:18

Rascova I'm with Errol - have a strong coffee before your workout. I'd be very wary of so called 'fat burners'.

Ali I've had 2 emergency c-sections and my stomach muscles are goosed. Got them back in shape after DC1, but DC2 was 3x bigger! Still struggle with my abs. It'll take a long time for your tummy muscles to strengthen after a split.

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 30/04/2014 10:15

Raskova my dad is a Dr, he is into 5:2 and HIIT, thinks they are fabulous. He wouldn't touch a 'fat burner' with a bargepole!

Errol - I just tried with extended arms - better! Grin I started in a 'downward dog' pose and kept my abs tight while I lowered into a pressup position. Held it for 10 seconds.
I need to find a suitable spot for inclined press ups - our stairs have a corner at the bottom so are no good.

Mazzle yep one EMCS DS1, and then an elective with DS2. No wonder my belly is in a dreadful state Grin

Going to try and fit in some HIIT later, lots of other urgent stuff to get done though.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2014 10:26

Raskova I agree with the others:
NEVER take fat-burners or metabolism accelerators

There are some very dangerous ingredients which get banned too late (e.g. phen-phen deaths)

What I do: double espresso 10 mins before vigorous exercise. That safely helps release fat stores for energy (only works if you exercise afterwards)

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2014 10:38

Max Heart Rate
If you've time to check your heart rate or do anything else other than the interval, then you are NOT doing full-on Tabata - concentrate !
Grin
I read about devices that monitor and store your heartrate etc, so you can check after a session. Anyone her recommend something ?

I expect very high heart rate for part of the 20 secs of a Tabata interval, but I've never checked mine.
Don't go over the guide for the full 20 secs, you probably need to build up fitness more.

When to stop:
Any pains in chest or arms, severe breathing difficulties, nausea.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2014 10:44

Plank
Forearms plank concentrates on the abs and lower back muscles, Straight-arm plank distributes the load more to the shoulders and arms.
Both versions are beneficial, in different ways.

If you have problems with forearms plank, I recommend strengthening the lower back, e.g. using barbell/dumbbells to do bentover row or lower back lift.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2014 10:50

Alibaba Good for your DH. Most men can't do full pressups either.
For you, build up with inclined pressups and the XFit pressups, see video at the bottom of the OP.

Useful tip: keep the abs rigid when doing pressups.
This is one reason I recommend plank: to strengthen those abs and lower back muscles you need for pressups.

The aim of a pressup is to keep your whole body in a rigid line, supported at hands and toes, with your shoulders and elbows being the only joints to allow movement.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 30/04/2014 11:10

Ali - I've used the following for inclined press-ups in decreasing height order: kitchen counter (if you find that easy try it with narrower arms); table (obviously one which doesn't move; sofa arm; coffee table (we've got a wide, solid one which is against a wall so secure - I also can use this for tricep dips); base of a bed; sofa base.

I'm on the floor now - not quite getting all the way down yet. I've evidently got a fear of faceplanting - I can go much further down if I put a cushion under my face - I'm getting my nose well into it (3x 5 or 6 today). Will have to find thinner cushion for next time Grin.

BC, 'If you have problems with forearms plank, I recommend strengthening the lower back, e.g. using barbell/dumbbells to do bentover row or lower back lift.' - I tried googling the latter, wasn't clear what that one is. I'm a bit wary of using weights to work on the back in case of getting it wrong.... interspersing planks with 'supermans' (which is maybe the simplest back exercise and 'safe' ?) feels like it's helpful.

Raskova · 30/04/2014 11:21

The ones I've looked at are Hydroxycut hardcore elite

They make you warmer so you burn heat more. I didn't know they also give u energy.

I hate coffee... May have to grin n bear it Hmm

DDs DF takes razor8 to train. I take it if I train in the day which is rare but not sure it makes a difference. DD was conceived on jack3d Shock

ErrolTheDragon · 30/04/2014 11:53

A very quick google for Hydroxycut hardcore elite 'side effects' suggests that even the newer formulations have issues. TBH sounds like an expensive form of caffeine pills with added potential issues. If you don't like coffee then maybe an equivalent dose of just caffeine in pill form might be a safer (and cheaper) bet?

Raskova · 30/04/2014 19:28

I'll try and have a gander at the websites. Side effects are obviously a big worry.

On the plus side, I could do with being a degree warmer. I'm always bloody cold. I seem to have lost all my motivation. I have moved depts at work and now do a lot of walking/lifting etc and go for a walk on my half hour dinner break but can't hold back on the food. I've eaten 3 snack size twixs today Confused

Raskova · 30/04/2014 19:28

And still go to the gym Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2014 23:38

Raskova All these thermogenic / metabolic sports formulations seem to have side effects reported after a couple of years.
Those without alarming reports are either newer or just placebos.

There really is no magic pill, because any proper human trials of one would be headlines in sports science and I'd soon know about it

I don't like coffee either, but at least it is safe (for nearly everyone)
My double espresso is just 3 mouthfuls, which I knock back like medicine. I don't like pills, even caffeine.

OP posts:
Raskova · 01/05/2014 11:07

Where do you get these espressos from? Can you make them without a machine? I can bear 3 mouthfuls... Just! Wink

MazzleDazzle · 01/05/2014 17:16

Hello fellow fitness fasters!

On Sunday I am walking 15 miles cross country/up and down hill. Heading off first thing in the morning. I usually don't eat anything until 12pm. Any advice on what I should consume before, during and after gratefully appreciated. TIA

Breadandwine · 01/05/2014 21:41

Hi BC what do you think of and his claims?

He seems to be agreeing with you that a combination of IF, HIIT and weight training give the optimum results for health.