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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
Raskova · 01/05/2014 22:29

Getting quite worried. On the arc trainer today my heart rate got to 209bpm.

That's not good is it? I felt a strange feeling on my heart so obviously slowed down. It wasn't pain or bad, I just felt it. I imagine that to be standard?

I'm 26. According to the various max heart rate theorems(spell?) my max rate is 183-195 and various in between. I would day I was working hard. Not 100% tho. I just don't know...

Raskova · 01/05/2014 22:31

www.brianmac.co.uk/maxhr.htm

Various ways to calculate max heart rate. Sorry don't know how to link.

www.brianmac.co.uk/maxhr.htm

Raskova · 01/05/2014 22:32

Actually yes I do! Yay!!!!

Raskova · 01/05/2014 22:36

I've been lying in bed about 10-15 mins maybe longer (so I'm guessing this counts as resting) and my heart rate is 72. I imagine that's ok.

Heart actually hurts now, all this bloody talk! Ha!

ErrolTheDragon · 01/05/2014 22:36

Mazzle - well, the traditional food for a long walk is full english before, sandwiches during, a teashop if you can find one and the pub after, isn't it? Grin

I don't do that distance, but I walk on no or small breakfast till lunchtime so if you don't normally eat in the morning I wouldn't have thought it was essential. Maybe take an extra round of sandwiches which you might or might not eat in case you need it mid-morning?

ErrolTheDragon · 01/05/2014 22:56

Raskova - that link of yours says 'the variation in actual HRmax of 95% of individuals of a given age will lie within a range of ±20 beats/minute'. ... the average of your calculated values is 189, so you're just within that at 209 and 5% of people fall outside that range anyway.

72 is within normal resting range.

But - if you felt that it wasn't right then I'm sure you were sensible to slow down. Might be a good idea to get some proper medical advice... and meanwhile avoid magic pills. Even caffeine, if you're not a coffee drinker anyway TBH.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2014 23:58

Mazzle Sounds great fun and healthy too.
Smile
15km, even cross-country, is well under 3 hrs, so your body should have enough reserves to manage that fasted.
However, it is very moderate intensity exercise, which can increase appetite, especially out in the fresh air.

You might feel hungry, but you really don't need fuel, so be strong, hold out and repeat "I shall really enjoy lunch afterwards"

Try a double espresso before you start: it might help release your fat for fuel.
Ntbo, but take a big bottle of water (and some loo paper)

Have a good supper the night before with plenty of protein & veg, plus a moderate portion of complex carbs. You'll be fine.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/05/2014 00:05

Raskova How you feel is far more important than a heart monitor. Don't get hung up on these numbers.
Firms obv make a profit from all these gadgets, but they are really NOT necessary. I've never bothered with heart monitors, nor do most serious exercisers in all the various gyms I've used.

Work as hard as you sensibly can. If you don't feel well, stop. Have a rest day if you want.
Definitely avoid pills and drugs to improve performance - they can cause serious damage.

OP posts:
Raskova · 02/05/2014 06:02

It just seems very high. I've never got it that high before. I'm thinking a heart monitor in case the machines are giving incorrect readings because I'm intrigued to see what comes up.

I haven't bought any fat burners. Can't see that I will as they are £30-40 for something that's not guard teed and I'll have to do the strict diet and exercise thing anyway so may as well just carry on as I am.

I don't drink coffee but I am a massive lover of monster energy. So I imagine I'm used to the caffeine but again, didn't have that before I went.

I worried more yesterday because the boss who had the heart attack (tho he is 54/5) had some heart tests and the rumour is he ran four mins and his heart rate went to 185 and they told him to stop as too dangerous. Obv his max will be lower than mine but it led to a discussion if heart rates and everyone else said there's is x and mine seemed far too high.

Raskova · 02/05/2014 06:04

And yes Errol. I'm tempted to go the the docs. Just in case. But feel I'm massively over reacting

ErrolTheDragon · 02/05/2014 18:56

BC - mazzle's doing 15 miles not km so that's over 24km ..and TBH even 15km (over 9 miles) takes most people more than 3 hours if it's hilly ...even moreso if you're walking with people and looking at the view etc.

MazzleDazzle · 02/05/2014 19:57

I reckoned on it taking me 4-5 hours. As Errol says it's miles, not km.

Perhaps I could take a thermos of strong black coffee and couple of wholemeal wraps stuffed with chicken and lots of salad? Going out for dinner the night before to a great restaurant, so fuelling up should be easy.

The pub after the walk is, of course, a given Grin.

And no BC you aren't being too obvious - my friend had not even considered needing to go to the loo! After 2 kids, every drink equals 2 trips to the loo!

ErrolTheDragon · 02/05/2014 23:06

Personally I'd avoid coffee before/during walking precisely because of its diuretic effects ...fortunately I'm ok with tea for hours. Still, if you want to do some ATGs during your walk... Grin

If you've had big dinner the night before then starting off fasted should be fine, then the wraps sound good. We always carry fruit as well, which may or may not get eaten but I reckon it's always a good idea to have something extra in case someone misreads the map you get slowed down for any reason

BigChocFrenzy · 02/05/2014 23:46

Oops, I didn't see 15 miles.
I'd have scrambled eggs, tomatoes and 1 slice wholegrain toast at least 2 hrs before starting the hike, i.e. protein, veg & complex carb.

btw, when yomping, do look before dropping your drawers and doing an ATG: Hmm
On a German hiking trip many years ago, that's how I learnt the German word for stinging nettle - and my companions learnt many English words they shouldn't have
Blush Grin

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ErrolTheDragon · 02/05/2014 23:55

That reminds me - I did a great workout of static chair squats/ATGs (literally) this morning ... otherwise known as deadheading flowers without either kneeling or bending over. Wink

MazzleDazzle · 03/05/2014 07:44

Ha ha ha LOL at the stinging nettles!

I've never done anything like this before and I don't know anything about the etiquette of peeing in the wilderness surrounded by strangers Confused. Does one quietly slink off unnoticed, or announce loudly to the other walkers, "Nature calls! Please do excuse me as I piddle behind this bush!".

Personally I'd rather pee outside that in many of the country's public toilets!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2014 09:47

I've always been in mixed groups, but obv blokes have greater bladder capacity and tend just to stand proudly in the open to pee (but middle-aged prostates are chronic)
So, normally we women just murmur among ourselves "time to find a bush"

Etiquette is normally to scoop leaves over loo paper and also over any number 2s. Do take 2-3 pkts of tissues and a pack of wet wipes for hands. You want clean hands to glug water or if soemone offers a bit of fruit / nuts.

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MetellaEstMater · 04/05/2014 19:06

I'm with mazzle, if rather that the call of nature was answered by nature than a portaloo! I once spent six works bush camping in Africa. We had to grab a shovel and walk as far away from the campsite as possible, dig a hole and bury the deposit. Of a morning there was one particular idiot who enjoyed calling after the women, 'we know what you're doing.' Nice.

I've been very slack on this thread recently - tough to keep up with the main thread let alone two! My fitness regime now has the addition of bikram yoga on the advice of a good friend and I'm trying to balance this with HIIT, strength and running (10km in three weeks' time). All of this is on top of broken sleep as DD2 is still tiny. I must admit last week I was spent so took three days of exercise. It's got me wondering about rest days and how to manage wanting to so lots of different types of training. Maybe a fortnightly routine? Any ideas? And how often does everyone rest?

Happy Training! Thanks

BigChocFrenzy · 04/05/2014 23:55

Metella There are only so many hours you can train per week without overtraining.
Trying to do every kind of exercise is like trying to eat every healthy food: impossible. You need to prioritise according to upcoming goals.

You need at least one rest day per week.
Personally, I train 5-6 days per week: 60-90 mins HIIT spin, XFit, lifting, boxing.
Every couple of months, I have a break of 4-5 days.

To avoid over-production of cortisol, I recommend for most people that training sessions should be maximum 90 mins total within any one day.

So, Metella, if you are preparing for a race or PB, I suggest temporarily cutting down HIIT and strength training to one day each per week and yoga one day every 2 weeks.
Afterwards, I recommend cutting down on the running and increasing HIIT & strength training again.

As I posted earlier, scientific studies on running show:
. The health benefits are achieved in the first 20 minutes of any session
. A session of more than 90 mins suppresses the immune system for up to 3 days.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/05/2014 00:12

Walking and hiking are relaxing for the body, so these can be done several hours per day without problems.

If you have reduced calories below 7x TDEE over the week, then you will lose muscle - unless you do strength training of the major upper and lower body muscle groups.
These sessions can be quite short, say 5 days x 20 mins intense training, or longer, say 2 x 50 mins.

OP posts:
MetellaEstMater · 05/05/2014 03:46

Many thanks

MetellaEstMater · 05/05/2014 03:47

Oops posted too soon!

Many thanks BigChoc. Much valued advice, as ever.

BetsyBell · 05/05/2014 10:44

I seem to have got into a lovely exercise groove with the nice weather. I'm doing 2 Tae Kwon Do classes per week, 2 to 3 jogging and outdoor fitness sessions each week - usually with some HIIT sprints, weights and TKD forms practise thrown in too, press ups every day at least twice and now I've been challenged to learn to do knuckle press ups so just started trying those! As I get closer to my next grading date there will be increased forms practise too - which can be surprisingly intense if you put everything into it. I did an hour of it yesterday in the sunshine - pure bliss.

I cycle everywhere as a general rule and I've noticed my cycling has got really fast (traffic permitting) - keep arriving to places early due to muscle power heehee!

Apologies for my self-congratulatory tone - I am pretty pleased with myself though. If it's any consolation, I do appear to eating all the proverbial pies some days so need to get that back in check if I want these muscles to emerge from the soft cushiony covering!

ErrolTheDragon · 05/05/2014 11:54

Betsey - that sounds great!

I did the JM 6 week 6 pack this morning... not sure about it, she swaps so quickly between moves that I was forever having to pause, and then also play and rewind to get the moves right. Then did some extra arms stuff with my new 6kg pair of dumbells (military presses, rows, deadlifts plus hammer curl... really need to fetch DHs 8kg pair down for deadlifts, and also some triceps dips). Plan to do some extra leg or abs tomorrow and alternate.

Hopefully going for a walk now if DH will stop procrastinating.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/05/2014 17:39

That sounds a wonderful program of exercise, Betsy
Knuckle pressups are real hardcore. I'm very impressed you are trying those.

Errol Yes, you sound ready for the 8kg dumbbells, absolutely non-Girly to do 16kb deadlifts.

What great progress so many here have made.
Think how far you have come and be proud.
Smile

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