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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
Trenzalor · 22/03/2015 20:28

Shred level two... Level one was obviously my level of fitness as it was nice. Level two is hard! There were some moves I'd never heard of so I had to watch carefully and I'm still not sure I got them right!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2015 09:58

Anglaise IIRC you did the Rome Marathon last weekend.
How did it go and how do you feel ? < nosey >

OP posts:
LikeaHurricane · 24/03/2015 18:30

BigChocFrenzy please would you remind me about your recommendation to drink espresso before a workout and also is there a reasonably decent instant one available, I dont drink much coffee so don't have or really want a machine, just want the exercise benefits if possible
TIA x

ErrolTheDragon · 24/03/2015 20:32

trenzalor - the first time I did shred I had to rewind and rewatch a few bits and then do them a bit slower than they do to get them right. I seem to remember being confused by the pendulum lunge until I twigged that you only move one leg at a time. BlushGrin

Did 5 sets of tabatas this morning, and some free weights/body weight stuff yesterday instead of JM. I'll probably do No More Trouble Zones tomorrow though - I feel like it makes sure I've done a bit of everything, and some of the moves I can use bigger weights now.

Trenzalor · 24/03/2015 21:34

Errol I've done L2 for three days and am just grasping some of the moves now. Hopefully from tomorrow I'll be able to do them a bit better! I finish gasping and sweaty! It's definitely a workout. Thank goodness it's only twenty minutes!

Dumpyandabdabs · 24/03/2015 22:05

Well done on the tabata Errol and for the JM progress Trenzalor, I can't get into the shred, not sure why as I like ripped in 30 and the kick boxing one, well actually 'like' might be a strong word, they are all fairly torturous but they are my preferred choice of torture Grin

Managed my first 10k run yesterday, got until June for my first event so hoping to whittle away at my time over the next few weeks. I'm in total awe of marathon runners like Anglaise, such an amazing achievement!

ErrolTheDragon · 24/03/2015 22:08

I'm in awe of anyone who can run 10K or do 20 Big Girl pressups! Grin

Dumpyandabdabs · 24/03/2015 22:15

10k I can do (just), 20 press ups is another matter Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2015 23:31

Hurricane Useful tip:
Have a double espresso or another high-caffeine drink about 15 mins before vigorous training. It helps mobilise body fat to be available as fuel, i.e. helps fat-burning and gives an energy boost

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2015 23:48

I've no palate for coffee, so I used to have a double espresso at the gym.
Now I've found a caffeine booster drink I much prefer, that really gives me energy - called Liporush it also has B vits & amino acids, 8 cals in a 250 ml bortle.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2015 23:55

Anglaise is such a talented runner, with a great range of distances.
I can rattle off weighted Big Girls easily, but I hated running, just found it boring, even in a group in pretty countryside. I wasn't much good anyway, being short. So, I haven't run for years - I do other forms of cardio.

Find exercises you enjoy and you'll do them regularly. If you force yourself to do something you hate, it may discourage you from all exercise.
Find a substitute you like, that has the same function for your body.

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Breadandwine · 25/03/2015 02:15

I've been doing my HIIT - running on the spot in a swimming pool (dodgy knees) - 8 x 30 seconds with 20 seconds recovery, for several weeks now.

I'm so used to it that I don't get out of breath, hardly. Yesterday I checked my pulse afterwards, and it was only up to 108.

Today, I changed my routine to 8 x 35 seconds, reduced the recovery time to 15 seconds and got my pulse rate up to 115.

(I reckon I did around 1800 steps in 6 and a half minutes!)

I don't fancy carrying a wet rucksack on my back to increase my load - any ideas, BC?

BTW, I was more out of breath pushing my lawn mower around yesterday - although that was partly because I was breaking into a jog behind it on occasion! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2015 07:37

B&W Those short HIIT blasts only work as intended if, during the active part of the intervals, you get your heart rate up to the target heartrate for your age.
So, I think you've reached the limits for that in the pool.
I suggest it's time to shake up your routine:

  • Stop your HIIT pool running and do classic Tabata on dry land instead, starting with 1 max effort one (see below) and really ramping up the 20 secs intensity parts for the next 3 weeks, before trying to add a 2nd in succession.
  • At a different time / day, add a 4 min pool run, for another kind of fitness blast.

Tabata
Suitable exercises:
Running, stationary bike set to low resistance, burpees, punchbag, step-ups, swimming, squats, lunges, pressups, tricep dips, situps, jumping jacks ... or any combination you like.
. 8 x intervals of 20 secs @ 100% effort + 10 secs recovery (rest or slow speed)

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2015 07:43

Target Heart Rate
Everyone: Unless you are super-fit indeed, do NOT exceed 85% at any time.
Useful Calculator & Background
Charts:

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
OP posts:
LikeaHurricane · 25/03/2015 17:17

BigChocFrenzy thankyou for the reply, it's very helpful

Anglaise1 · 25/03/2015 17:43

Back from Rome today BigChoc and my legs are just about back to normal after the marathon on Sunday. The marathon was brilliant - well organised and the course went past and through many of the ancient monuments and squares. The only downside was the weather as it rained non stop and so there were a lot of big puddles and slippery cobblestones to navigate through! My time was 3H41M which I'm really pleased with. It would have been even better by a few minutes had I not had my normal gastric problems and did a Paula Radcliffe pitstop at 27kms.
I was 185th woman out of 2260 and 2922nd overall out of around 11500 runners. I had no problems with being out of breath at all, although my legs were hurting a lot in the end. But I didn't stop to walk at all and overtook lots of runners at the end. Overall average speed 7.3 miles per hour.
And yes, I can envisage doing another one, I actually really enjoyed it!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2015 19:40

That's brilliant, Anglaise Very well done with the rain & the slipperiness.
Flowers
What a wonderful experience, through the historic parts of the city.

Sounds like your cardio fitness is excellent, not being out of breath, but your muscles need a good rest. I hope you are now having your 2 easy weeks to recover fully.

re gastric issue:

  • What are you drinking during the marathon ?
  • What do you eat the morning of the race and the evening before ? Possible triggers: fruit, juice, caffeine.
Obviously avoid high fibre and farty food (like beans) in say the previous 36 hrs. This has useful suggestions.
OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 25/03/2015 20:45

Thanks BigChoc!
I wasn't out if breath at any point in the race. Interestingly I had a VO2 max test a couple of weeks before the marathon and it is 40, I did it on a bike and think it would have been higher if I'd done it on a treadmill because I'm not used to cycling. Regarding the tummy problems - I don't eat fruit, juice or drink caffeine before a race, just bread and jam or porridge. Pasta (no cream or tomato sauces) lunch/dinner the day before. I'm just one of the unlucky ones. It is worse when it is chilly, and I suffered most after drinking water and electrolyte drinks (which were cold) at the food stations. The kms after were awful. I think the best thing is not to drink or eat anything during a race, but during a marathon it is hard not to take in any fluid at all.
And yes, I promise I'm having an easy week, lots of walking to visit Rome, but no running.

Trenzalor · 25/03/2015 20:53

Great time Anglaise! Especially considering the weather. I dream of running at ten minutes per mile, let alone seven!

I just did the Davina seven minute abs workout (only one downloaded so far) that another thread have been raving about. I thought it was the warm up for the actual abs workout and was a bit confused when it ended. I guess that means the Shred kicks Davina's ass.

Breadandwine · 25/03/2015 23:59

Well done, Anglaise! That's fantastic - you're fantastic!

Star

Thanks for all that, BC! Seems to me I'm right on the mark, ATM. Today I repeated the 35 seconds on 15 seconds off and my pulse rate was 19 in 10 seconds.

I think I'll stick with this for several weeks - and carry out some research on Tabata moves I can manage in the meantime.

ErrolTheDragon · 26/03/2015 10:03

Totally awed by you anglaise! I'm not sure that my 'fast running' is as much as your average!

Thanks for the heart rate stuff, BC - I can never find my pulse properly but I got an app which uses the camera on the fingertip which seems to work. Obviously I can only use that after the last tabata interval in a set, and there's already a drop-off before it's done but it looks like I'm at the right level.

BetsyBell · 26/03/2015 17:11

ANGLAISE!!! WOW!!! You are one very impressive woman.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2015 17:07

Specially for those popping over from the main thread:

Abs Exercises
Choose the exercises & number of reps for your fitness level.

The plank
. If you don't do this yet, start at 2 x 15 secs. Work up to 3 x 45 secs
. Advanced options:

  1. Use the TRX slings, see picture 1

Side plank with hip raises , see picture 2
. If you can, have keep the side of 1 foot plus 1 forearm on the floor, the free arm straight up in the air, as in picture.
. Easier - free hand on your hip. Easier still - and keep your calf and knee on the floor, instead of bent at the knees.
. Start at 3 sets of 3 and build up to 3 x 30

Leg raises
. Lie flat on your back, with legs bent to 90 degrees.
. Lower your legs one at a time to 1" above the floor (straighten leg if you can) then raise again.
. Start at 3 sets of 3 each leg. Build up to 3 sets of 15.
. Advanced options:

  1. Lower both legs at the same time, see picture 3

Classic Situps
. Hands forward ensures you really work your muscles and avoids pulling on the neck
. Alternatively, cross your arms over your chest Video Beginners can use one of those gym cage gadgets to support neck.
. Start at 3 sets of 3 and build up to 3 x 30
. Advanced options:

  1. Raise legs to 90 degrees and bring them towards you when you situp (double crunch)
  2. Legs nearly flat on the floor
  3. One leg bent at 90 degrees, the other held straight 1" above the floor
  4. Hold a weight disc or dumbbells or 10-20 kg dumbbells above your head

Angled situps
. Lie on your back and rest one ankle on the opposite knee.
. Angled situp so your opposite elbow touches the knee.
. Keep the other hand be in the air by your knee, or alternatively supporting your head - do NOT pull on the neck.
. Build up to 3 sets of 20 each side
. Advanced options:

  1. with dumbell
  2. Situps with legs rotated 90 degrees to the left, resting on floor. Then repeat set with legs rotated to the right, on floor.
  3. Lie on the floor, rotate legs 90 degrees to the left. Raise and lower legs like that, keeping back on the floor. Repeat set with legs on other side
  4. Keep legs raised & rotated to the left and do situps (double side crunch) Repeat with legs raised & rotated to the right
5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
OP posts:
Trenzalor · 28/03/2015 12:47

First Parkrun for about two years (when pregnant I went to treadmill running and since having DD I haven't had the time or energy) and I was s l o w! I may be two stone + lighter but four minutes slower! I stopped looking at my pace in the end as it was grim reading and just did what I could. I figure I've given myself a new baseline to beat.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2015 07:39

Trenzalor That illustrates "use it or lose it".
Just keep running and you'll build up to your old pace; then with your new slimmer bod you'll improve further and have a new pb.

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