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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
Trenzalor · 09/03/2015 23:07

30 day shred question for those of you who have done it: I've done five days of the shred now (with one rest day in the middle). I only have level one - are the other levels harder or just different? When should I move to two, oh wise ones?

ErrolTheDragon · 10/03/2015 08:34

Trenzalor - the levels do get progressively harder on average, though most people find there's some moves in each that they find easier or harder in each obv. About 10 days per level is typical for first time through, but there's no hard and fast rule. If you're bored and/or it's become easy then move on; conversely you don't have to get everything perfect 'natalie' before changing level. The dvd should only be £5 - I've certainly had my money's worth out of mine!

ErrolTheDragon · 11/03/2015 08:57

I'm going out later this morning so didn't want to do my usual JM - I'm doing No More Trouble Zones at the moment which is longer than shred/ripped.

So, I warmed up, did my inclined push-up sets and then tried some tabata - I got a simple timer app which works well. But I'm not sure whether I'm doing it right. Are you supposed to do the same exercise x8 (with the 20/10 timing), and then a minute break and then (as you progress) another set of 8 of something else, etc? Or is it ok to do 8 different exercises in combination (or maybe a couple alternating or whatever) for each set? (and then repeat that sequence however many times). I did the latter (just the once so far as it was my first attempt) and it felt good but not as hard as I was expecting.

ErrolTheDragon · 11/03/2015 09:40

Anyway, my first set was burpees, weighted step-ups, squats, triceps dips, butterfly sit-ups, weighted punches, jumping jacks and 'forearm pushups' (the thing where you alternate between extended and forearm plank).

After that I did some unmixed sets - step ups(unweighted this time), triceps dips (8 sets of those is a bit hard on the wrists), butterfly situps and then punches with 5lb weights.

Warmup I included some of the JM standing-on-one-leg things, so I even got a bit of balancing in too.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2015 12:42

Errol Within a single Tabata, it is fine to do different exercises if you prefer: the aim is to push the CV system to the maximum during those few mins, not train particular muscles.
Do keep the 20/10 split.

You need sufficient break between Tabatas so that you can perform them all equally well. A 1 min break suggests your intensity is not sufficiently high.
Within our very fit Boxing class, we have 2 mins before each of our 5 Tabatas, but even there most folk perform Tabatas 3-5 much less energetically than Tabata 1.

I suggest 2-5 mins recovery, say as a gentle walk with arm swings. No weight lifting or sprints, just pure recovery.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2015 12:44

Sounds like you have a very good mix of exercises in your 1st Tabata. It can make it more fun, hence you are more likely to continue longterm.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 11/03/2015 13:17

Great, thanks! I think I'll work out some mixes - eg while 8 lots of triceps dips was too much, I think I might do 4 and then 4 of something else (or vv).

I was definitely breaking for more than a minute, that was just something I read on some website when I was trying to check the protocol. After the first set I wrote that first post. The others I wandered around plumping cushions etc till I felt ready to go again. I'll take a duster in with me next time. Grin

If I start doing some running again I'll definitely use this app to do some proper timed intervals on the way back. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2015 15:02

Maybe deep squats for the other sets, to work your lower half.
One of our Tabatas is usually squats and the last few sets HURT Grin

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 11/03/2015 15:43

Squats are always a good one!

grannygrotts · 11/03/2015 21:24

Trenzalor here is a link to level 2 of 30 day shred:-

I am a couple of days behind you, just finished L1D5 today and will be taking a rest day tomorrow as it's also a FD for me. Planning on doing L1D6/D7 on Friday/Saturday and then may move on to L2 on Sunday.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2015 23:53

Errol I recommend Tabatas contain at least 50% cardio-dominant exercises - e.g. burpees, jumping jacks, star jumps, skipping, punchbag - since the aim is to work your CV system to its max.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 12/03/2015 11:17

Yes, I'm sure you're right. There's loads of things to choose from! Smile

mildlyacquiescent · 13/03/2015 14:43

Re: Shred, I think I did Level 1 for two months before I moved up the first time, because I couldn't get the press-ups right! I found Level 2 a bitch (plyometrics stuff, I hate) but the walking press-ups much easier than Level 1. And I found Level 3 easier than Level 2. The whole programme is amazing, though.

One warning: she is addictive! And she has released so many excellent, excellent DVDs.

ErrolTheDragon · 13/03/2015 15:49

Oh, well my main claim to fame on this board is my continuing inability to do a BGP, so I'm glad I didn't stick to L1 shred till I could! Grin I'm plugging away at inclined pressups as an extra, and just do the 'anitas' in shred etc.

ErrolTheDragon · 13/03/2015 16:00

Did tabata again today - mixed sets, 5 mins between. I've forgotten how many times per week is recommended. Alternating it with days doing No More Trouble Zones might be my plan for next week.

Also thinking I should start doing a bit of (by my standards) heavy lifting again - I haven't since before xmas because my back was somewhat strained. I've been very cautious about form and not gone too heavy with the weights in JM (eg 6kg pair for deadlift/upright row thing).

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2015 20:19

Errol I suggest you start with 2 days a week for Tabata.
You could probably build up to a maximum of 5 days, since this is what Mosely recommends for his Fat Fitness Blasts, which are comparable.

However, anyone who does a lot of other HIIT might need to limit Tabata to just 1-2 days, to avoid over-training.

OP posts:
Trenzalor · 14/03/2015 21:15

Granny thanks for the link. I'm getting on okay with level 1, even my (on knees) press ups have improved. My pelvic floor is struggling with the cardio though! I love the fact it's just twenty minutes. I'll probably do a few more days then go to level 2.

Breadandwine · 15/03/2015 01:21

Just completed my 80 press ups - and found the first three sets quite comfortable.

So I slipped a kg bag of sugar in my rucksack - making it 9kgs - and did my last set.

With relative ease!

I think next time I do them I'll put my 9kg kettlebell in the rucksack, bringing it up to 11kgs.

Or should I keep the 8kgs and do a few sessions with my feet higher up?

Update: I've now done a further 20 press ups with 9kgs on my back and my feet on the first step. [smug]

Grin
BigChocFrenzy · 15/03/2015 08:28

< applauds smug bloke >

OP posts:
Trenzalor · 15/03/2015 22:13

Well, I'm not nearly as impressive as B&W, but I did fifteen proper press ups today. They weren't deep, but it's a start. I managed three before the shred and believe me - that was impressive as they're not something I've done before!

Breadandwine · 16/03/2015 00:17

Trenz, not at all!

A PB is a PB and should be celebrated.

And it's not all that long ago that I was in the same position as you.

(BTW, I've just eaten the last two HCBs - and there is a quarter of the most gorgeous pizza calling my name. By just writing that I've been encouraged to put said pizza piece [try saying that fast!] in the freezer!) Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2015 09:34

Well done, Trenzalor That's excellent progress. Your upper body should look more toned now.

OP posts:
Trenzalor · 21/03/2015 10:22

Did twenty last night Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2015 11:19

That's brilliant Grin Trenzalor !
Once you get the knack of Big Girls, you can soon build up the reps and sets.
How about 3 sets of 8 reps, then build up to 3 x 10

Are you doing deep bodyweight squats and lunges too ? Great for firming up the lower half.

OP posts:
Trenzalor · 21/03/2015 14:44

I am doing squats and static lunges as well. I'm going to buy some hand weights on Amazon in a mo. 2kg I think.

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