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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
grannygrotts · 29/01/2015 16:02

Am going to throw my tentative foot into this thread although it's a little daunting tbh as there seem to be some super athletes on here.

Am going to get a kettle bell. I have a 3kg ball which pushes me at the moment, but the heavier balls are just too big for my little hands and I can't hold them; the ones with handles are super expensive. So have decided on a kettle bell. But there are lots of them around - and obviously I'd like a nice girly coloured one but read somewhere that these are difficult to hold as the vinyl gets slippery. Any suggestions on brand and which weight I should start with? Is 6kg too much?

ErrolTheDragon · 29/01/2015 22:20

Welcome granny - nah, it's not all super athletes, I'm around here continuing to fail to be able to do Big Girl Pressups from time to time too. However, don't let BC catch you wanting 'girly' weights! Grin

Right size weight obviously varies hugely according to both your strength and what exactly you're doing with them! I don't do kettlebell, but there's a squat and swing move in the JM dvd I'm doing at the moment which she says is like a kettlebell swing, and I'm using a 6kg dumbell (held by its end) for that so I'd guess that's likely to be in the right ballpark for some moves. B&W is a kettler I think so can probably make more informed suggestions.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2015 22:57

Welcome, Granny Don't be shy Smile

For kettle bells, I expect cast iron is better for gripping, but the kettle part is usually brightly coloured (I used a bright yellow 32 kg cast iron one when our gym had them for a trial) so no problem finding girly colours.

B&W can tell you which brand he got and whether it was vinyl / cast iron < bellows loudly to B&W ! >
I think he started at quite a low weight, 3kg ?, but has progressed and keeps having to buy bigger ones !

I think you need 3 or 4 kg to start, as the exercises are quite vigorous, see Kettlebells Section towards the end of the OP.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2015 21:50

Choosing Kettlebells:
I've checked into this and vinyl ones may peel over time, whereas cast iron survive anything. However, unless you are running a gym, probably not an issue.

What is important
. Make sure the kettlebell is made from one piece, NOT the type with the handle attached separately: You don’t want your kettlebell to come apart while you’re swinging it !
. Choose a weight you can lift only 4-8 times, because you'll soon build up strength and be able to do sets of 30.

OP posts:
grannygrotts · 01/02/2015 23:25

Thanks Errol and BigChock. Am wondering whether a set of dumbbells wouldn't be better, maybe one where I can adjust the weights? Would give me more flexibility as to what I can do with the weights.

Argos has this www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/9017362.htm for £30.

Do you think this would be better off to start with?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2015 00:47

Granny Yes, unless you madly fancy kettlebells, I would suggest starting with adjustable dumbbells or barbells, both because of the range of weights and because they enable a wider range of lifting exercises

This at £29.99 ia also from Argos and has both a barbell and dumbbells, all adjustable.
The main lifting exercises are better with a barbell, e.g. benchpress, deadlift, squats, rowing. Other exercises are more suited to dumbbells.

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 02/02/2015 11:15

Morning, everyone!

Welcome to the thread, GG.

Yes I started Xmas 2013 with a 3kg kb - got a 6kg one at Easter and a 9kg one in the summer. Stalled a bit through injury but I'm now almost up to 20 reps with each of my 9 exercises. Just the 2 dead lifts to go - I'm on 14 of those ATM. With a 2 minute gap between sets.

The make is Lonsdale- and they're reasonably priced at Sports Direct. I'll send you a pic when I can figure out how to send one on my new iPhone 5. Confused

Breadandwine · 02/02/2015 11:33

Here they are. My 3 kg kb is in my backpack ATM, for my weighted press ups.

I love 'em - the only drawback as far as I can see is that you develop hard pads at the base of each finger. What we used to call 'segs' as a kid. I wear them as a badge of pride [bloke], but I can see how a woman wouldn't want them. How do you get on BC?

I suppose gloves are the answer.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2015 11:48

b&w That's really good progress with the kettlebells. Sounds like you'll be shopping again soon for a bigger one.
I don't have any hard skin, but I often do pressups on a carpet or mat. I always wear gloves for pullups.

I've just joined a 2nd gym at work, as backup [mad] which has kettlebells. My main gym only had them for a brief trial period. I used the 12kg for circuit training and the 32 kg for lower back, so that was low reps, high weight.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2015 15:30

< waves to lurking exercise virgins >
You have nothing to lose but your huffing & puffing and flab Smile
Come join us, whatever your level

OP posts:
amigababy · 05/02/2015 17:58

B&W please tell me about your general exercise plan. Much like regular diets I have poor consistency with exercise, much stop/ start, because I get demotivated.

What kept you going at the start, snooty could make the progress you've achieved to date. Thanks Smile

amigababy · 05/02/2015 17:59

so that not at all snooty!

Breadandwine · 06/02/2015 01:50

I think I know what you mean, amigab! Grin

I first of all went on line looking for 'Home-based exercises', and found there were loads of sites offering advice. Then BC's thread started to make more of an impact and…well, I've told my story here, on my blog.

You have to remember I've lived a life without ever having any muscles to speak of - in fact I used to disdain weight-lifting, etc, as being completely unnecessary. I've now done a complete turn around, and I'm growing muscles for the first time in my life!

Another factor was reading - in one or two of the links in the OP on the main thread - about how weight-lifting was a real complement to IF. The two things really go together. And taken with HIIT, I think they're the three things needed for optimal health.

My routine now takes around half an hour - I do it whilst watching Newsnight (I'm a bit of a news geek), and, TBH, I don't really mind it.

When I do my 9 kettlebell exercises, after I've done the first two - right and left dead lifts - which are a bit of a struggle, I will admit, the rest are much easier. And almost every other day I can see some progress being made, which is really motivating.

I should say, with all the sites offering advice on how to do press ups, I couldn't get the hang of it. Until, that is, BC told me to start from a lying down position and push my body upwards. Once I got the hang of that, I was away.

ATB!

BigChocFrenzy · 06/02/2015 09:05

Welcome Amiga Do you have an exercise plan, or would you like some suggestions ?
Do you want to exercise at home / gym / park / .... ?

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 06/02/2015 12:31

amiga - one thing that can really help motivation is if you've got a reason for exercising, preferably something a bit more specific than 'to get fitter' or 'to help lose weight'. Mine was so that I was better able to do things like watersports with my teenage daughter. Can you think of something you want to do which you'll be able to do better if you get fitter?

amigababy · 06/02/2015 16:40

Thank you everyone - you're all really kind and all suggestions welcome. I think, as with previous "diets" I've had too many ideas - I'm always trying this and that, running (succeeded fine with C25k but then gave up), weights, many many DVD's; I'm an exercise butterfly and end up with no consistency and not knowing if I'm coming or going! Smile

So - to calm myself down I'm going to spend this year in 3 month chunks working on things in this order:

  1. Stretching, flexibility and posture (very slouchy) - because I love yoga, ballet etc,. From this I want to get into a routine of just exercising regularly, without the arguing, naysaying voice in my head.
  2. Then 3 months weights (already got the dumbbells - got the kitchen sink nearly!)
  3. Then 3 months going back to running / swimming.

When I try to mix it up - I get all mixed up! So blocking out the year like this will stop me dithering and flitting from one thing to another. Maybe by quarter 4, I'll be able to do a mixed week and become an all-rounder (Yey!) Next year I'm retiring and will have a ton of time to do all sorts of exercise, I really want to be in good shape before that point.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/02/2015 19:50

Amiga That sounds a decent plan that should get you in the habit of going to the gym. Block off the time in your diary, just as you would for any other important appointment.
In your flexibility and ballet chunk, you might enjoy Zumba too.

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 06/02/2015 22:23

Good stuff, amiga - you certainly want to be fit to enjoy your retirement fully.

(Says he, 22 years retired and looking forward to another 22 - at least! Grin)

For anyone looking for kettlebells, they have them in Lidl ATM. 2.5, 5 and 10kg, very reasonable in price. I was tempted with the 10kg, since my local sports shops only go up to 9kg - but an increase of just 1kg isn't quite enough for me. I'll have to go online, I fear.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/02/2015 22:41

B&W I suggest you go straight up to 12kg. They have this weight at my new work gym and I found it was just right.
I see Amazon have free delivery of this 12kg cast iron one

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 07/02/2015 01:02

Thanks, BC, that's a good price!

I've emailed the link to my wife - she's the Amazon guru around here.

I still have some tidying up to do with the 9kg kb, but in a week or ten days I should be ready to move on.

Dumpyandabdabs · 09/02/2015 15:10

Just wanted to share this mornings purchase with you all, he he can you tell I'm excited!! Should arrive in about a week and I can't wait to get out on it. Its going to be quite a change from my ten year old mountain bike Grin

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
ErrolTheDragon · 09/02/2015 16:22

Ooh, that looks nice! Have you got anything particular planned for it?

I really do want to get my bike out again soon - hardly rode at all last year. It's never been something I've done alone (since I was a student and it was my means of transport) - the lanes round here (despite some being officially national cycle routes) really aren't very safe so we have to do that ridiculous thing of putting the bikes in the car, which I never CBA to do alone. Hmm

Breadandwine · 09/02/2015 16:28

Wow, Dumpy, that looks seriously good!

You'll have a great deal of fun with that, I'm sure!

Dumpyandabdabs · 09/02/2015 18:31

Yeah putting bikes in the car is a real pain, hopefully you'll find a usable route closer to home Errol. Thanks B&W I'm sure I will (once the pain and suffering of the first few weeks subsides ha ha!)

Planning on using it to ride to work three days a week, and also hopefully a couple of slightly longer rides on my days off. I'm really lucky that I live out in the sticks so there are lots of country roads with very little traffic on them. I have been trying to get out as much as I can but my mountain bike is heavy and I always feel like half my pedalling energy goes into the soggy suspension so hopefully this will be a vast improvement!

ErrolTheDragon · 09/02/2015 19:33

Oh, there are usable routes close to home - just that all the roads out of the village are a bit iffy for riding on. TBH I would, I used to cycle in a city before the days of cycle paths/lanes, but DH would have kittens and it's not something I want to fight about.