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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
MrsStevenPatrickMorrissey · 10/02/2015 09:23

Hi everyone, Ive drummed up the courage to come out of lurking! I'm not super fit, but trying to get back to the fitness level I had a few years ago, was doing lots of running and core workouts, a few half marathons and lots of 10ks, then got pg, had a miscarriage, blamed the fact I was still exercising, stopped, got pg again and dd will be 2 this ur so it's been nearly 3 years since I've been doing steady exercise, the odd walk here and there, lost 2 stone last yr through 5:2, and then went off the rails! Sooo now back on board (for life I hope) and slowly but surely getting back to being fit again.

I did a HIIT boot camp this morning and I loved it, the variety in the work out was great, only thing is the press ups, girlie ones I think bigchoc calls them and I would love to learn to do them properly. My aim is to be running 5ks & 10ks again by the summer....so am hoping to pick up some good tips and advice here if that's ok....sorry for the easy!! Smile

ErrolTheDragon · 10/02/2015 11:30

Welcom, MrsS, no courage required here and you sound like an ideal candidate for BC's ministrations! Grin

MrsStevenPatrickMorrissey · 10/02/2015 12:06

Thanks Errol I'm hoping BC will whip me into shape Grin

CeciledeVolanges · 10/02/2015 12:46

Hello...
I'm just cautiously poking my head in here to ask a few questions - is it necessary to follow the 5:2 diet in order to ask advice here and to take up this form of exercise? I have a very long history of eating disorders and I'm not sure I'm ready for fasting yet, but I'm really interested in taking up this exercise.
Thanks everyone :)

ErrolTheDragon · 10/02/2015 12:53

Cecile - I would think everyone on this thread would like to be supportive of anyone who wants to be here. Smile That said, not sure what you mean by 'this form of exercise' as there's all sorts discussed here! Perhaps you mean particularly HIIT?

CeciledeVolanges · 10/02/2015 14:12

Yes, HIIT :) I've recently seen both the Horizon documentaries. However I live nowhere near the gym on a restricted income and (to my shame) wouldn't know where to start with a skipping rope!

Breadandwine · 10/02/2015 19:03

Hi Cecile

Welcome to the thread - I'm sure anyone can fit in here.

About HIIT - because of my dodgy knees I've been running on the spot in a pool, 6 x 30 seconds with a 20 sec recovery. But the other day I was waiting for the bus, and it was freezing - so I did 30 secs of running on the spot to warm up, and my knees were fine.

So that's something you could do, Cecile, until you find something. Don't worry about a gym - I wouldn't go near one, myself - there are plenty of things you can do in the home.

And I'm sure BC will be along with a comprehensive workout schedule for you shortly.

My new kettlebell arrived today - and I managed 8 reps of a lift with it. But I'll put aside until I can manage the 9kg one perfectly.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2015 01:05

You'll have great fun with your new bike, Dumpy
I gave up my car back in 2000 and I cycle or walk everywhere. Much less stressful.

Hi MrsS the HIIT will i prove your fitness and help you with the 5k and 10k.
To do Big Girls (instead of girlie pressups) and improve your upper body, you can try:
. Inclined pressups with your hands on the stairs. Over the weeks, you progress to lower and lower steps.
. Hand release pressups, see video in OP, which build up the strength you need for Big Girls.
The important thing is to use your abs to keep your whole body rigid, so your weight is only on toes and hands, with only your arms moving, himged at the elbows & shoulders.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2015 01:23

Hi Cecile If you have an ED history, you should definitely NOT fast.
You are welcome here, though
Smile
If you are just starting exercise, I suggest "walking intervals":
. Walk normal pace 5 mins to warm up
. Quick walking pace for 2 mins followed by 1 min at normal pace
. Repeat the intervals of 2 mins / 1 mins as many times as you can, building up to a 40 minute session.

If you are a bit fitter, you can do "sprint intervals" of 1 min sprinting flat out / 30 secs jogging to recover

You can also do these, alternating 1 minute exercising as hard as you can with 30 secs rest:
. stationary bike, punchbag, step-ups, swimming, squats, lunges, pressups, tricep dips, situps ... or any combination you like.

Whatever you do, always start with a few mins warmup walk or run and finish with a few mins cooldown.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 11/02/2015 13:46

Cecile - if you google HIIT you'll find loads of HIIT ideas for various levels of fitness.

Skipping is one, and the best place to start with that IMO is with no rope at all! Grin I do the Jillian Michaels shred type DVDs, and one of the things she does in the cardo intervals (which I do as HIIT by doing them as hard as I can and pausing to recover) is 'jumprope' - just going through the motions but with no rope to tangle you up.

Many forms of HIIT you want a sports bra and decent trainers, maybe a mat if you've got hard floors - and that's it. But if you don't even have those then you can look for low impact HIIT.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2015 16:49

Errol Isn't the starter JM routine free to download, or did I hear wrongly ?

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 11/02/2015 16:57

BC - I think so, and various of the others are available online but I'm not sure which (if any) are actually supposed to be out there. I've bought the DVDs - the 30 day shred is only £5.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 11/02/2015 18:46

Ok. Im going in!
Great thread bigchoc
I will start with inclined press ups on the stairs and aim to progress. I only ever do girly press ups. Blush
And I will get back to running.
So incredibly busy atm. As soon as the kids are in bed I have tons of stuff to do around the house. Its been so stressful.But I will try to geta run in before the end of e week.
Its a start.
And my fds are going wll (good one today)

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2015 19:07

Hi, Amanda Great about the FDs.
Weight loss is from calorie deficit, whereas health, fitness & shape are from exercise
Build it into your routine that as soon as the sprogs are in bed, you do your pressups on the stairs so they can't giggle "look what mummy's doing before moving to your next job.
Id you are so pushed for time, I recommend Mosely's Fast Fitness Blasts, which take literally a few minutes.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2015 19:21

Michael Mosely's Fast Fitness Blasts - for busy folk

Maximum 10 minutes on 3-5 days per week, to boost fitness significantly.
No more than 1 x FFB routine per day

4-minute Blast
Suitable exercises: Running, stair-running, skipping, stationary bike, rowing machine, cross-trainer, swimming, (for the less fit) walking uphill / stairs
. Brief warmup 1-4 mins
. Exercise at 90% effort for 4 mins. You should be breathless and exhausted afterward.
. Brief cooldown 1 min

FatBurner
Suitable exercises: Only practical on a stationary bike
. Set resistance very high, so you can just pedal
. Brief warmup 1-4 mins
. Repeated intervals of 8 secs max speed, with 12 secs low speed recovery
. Start by doing the intervals for at most a total of 5 mins (even 1 min) but build up the time.
Very fit folk can eventually do say 15 mins
. Brief cooldown 1 min

20-sec intervals
Suitable exercises: Running, stair-running, skipping, stationary bike, rowing machine, cross-trainer, swimming, (for the less fit) walking uphill / stairs
.Warmup for 1-4 mins, until you feel ready
.20 sec burst 100% effort, at a level where you can't do another 2 secs.
.about 2 min gentle exercise to recover
.another 20 sec burst at max intensity.
.final recovery period of at least 2 mins

60-sec intervals
. As above, but 5x 60 secs at 90% capacity, with 90 sec recovery periods in between.

OP posts:
TheRealAmandaClarke · 11/02/2015 20:22

Thanks so much bigchoc

grannygrotts · 11/02/2015 23:31

This is as close as I have got to JM; maybe one day (or 30)

www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jillian+michaels

ErrolTheDragon · 11/02/2015 23:35

There's always a monthly shred thread going under the Exercise topic, lurk there if you're interested in what it's like for mortals. Grin

Breadandwine · 11/02/2015 23:51

I've just completed my body weight exercises and upped a couple of them.

I figured if I can do weighted press ups with my feet on the first step, it was time I increased the weight - so I've replaced the 3kg kb with my 6kg kb. My backpack now weighs 8kg.

And I completed 4 x 20 press ups with 1 minute recovery. So I'm going to have to start climbing the stairs again!

My 4 sets of chin ups tonight - 7, 5, 5 and 4, with a 2 min recovery.

My handstands - 4 x 30 secs (1 min recovery) with my feet on the 7th rung of the loft ladder.

Now I'm wondering, after reading one of the many pancake threads, whether I should have a couple! Confused

Bit of a reward, I'm thinking! Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 11/02/2015 23:56

Wow. Blimey. What can one say to that? Grin

I know what I should say at this point - goodnight!

TheRealAmandaClarke · 12/02/2015 11:46

Lidl have kettle balls atm.
2.5kg and 5kg.

Breadandwine · 12/02/2015 12:26

I thoroughly recommend them, Amanda. I began with a 3kg - and I've never looked back.

It's partly the convenience - you can fit your routine in any spare time you've got.

ErrolTheDragon · 12/02/2015 12:42

What are the advantages of kettlebells over other forms of exercise (eg conventional dumbbell stuff) in your experience, B&W? (or anyone else who does it)

CeciledeVolanges · 12/02/2015 14:51

Thanks for the advice, especially those interval sets, BigChoc. And the tip about the skipping without a rope - my co-ordination is terrible. I will report back when I've tried a few times!

Breadandwine · 12/02/2015 18:58

Hi Errol

Not sure I'm qualified to comment on this since I've never used dumbbells.

I expect they'll both produce the required results in the end.

As I said earlier, I like the convenience of the kb. It sits on the kitchen worktop and, when a TV programme comes on that I enjoy, I can just start my routine. I've seen regular progress every week - sometimes every (other) day - but I expect that would apply to dumbbells as well.

As ever, we'll have to wait for a BC review! Grin

Just spent 45 minutes doing a HIIT routine - sweeping the damned decking, which is in close proximity to 3 silver birch trees!

30 seconds of high intensity sweeping followed by a recovery period whilst the leaves are picked up - then more HS!

No idea how many sets, but it helped to keep the motivation going in the cold outdoors (I'm a kitchen guy, really! Grin).

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