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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
Anglaise1 · 19/01/2015 19:43

No idea what Cage Fitness is, but it sounds fun and exercise should be enjoyable.
Not very academic, but an easy and interesting read about the importance of exercise with contributions by one of my favourite running, exercise and weight control authours, Matt Fitzgerald.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2015 23:08

Wow, just noticed your 75k, Anglaise Fantastic, you are our running star !
Flowers
You certainly seem to thrive on the longer distances.
Are you interested on ultramarathons ? Your experience at the "shorter" 5k, 10k would potentially give you good pace for a final spurt to kill off your rivals.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2015 23:10

Over how many days did you spread the 75k ?
Have you ever run longer than a marathon (thinking ultra) ?

OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 20/01/2015 06:59

BigCho the 75kms is just my weekly total, I try and run 5 or 6 times a week, 3 hard sessions including one long run and intervals and 2 or 3 easy 10k runs.
The longest race I've done so far is 42kms, a trail race. I know I could go further, I'm lucky as I seem to have the speed to do quite well in shorter races and the endurance to do longer races. One of my running friends is really experienced in ultras and when I did the trail race with her I was stronger and finished better, so I know I'm capable. She did a 96km run last summer and is doing the Mont Blanc at the end of August, something I'd love to do when my kids are older!
After the marathon is out of the way, there are a few long trail races in the summer I'd like to do of around 60kms. That will do for this year Wink
I can't do trails at the moment because the marathon needs speed and you lose that when you run trails. So all training and racing is on the road at the moment (apart from the cross country which is short and intense so not at loggerheads with marathon training.)
Running can be a complicated business sometimes!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2015 14:13

Anglaise You have an unusually wide range of distances for which you can get good times. Clearly very talented.
Other runners must be Envy and Shock
A tricky balance: sufficient variety for enjoyment, but enough specialisation in 1 event to get a morale-boosting time.
I'd expect sprint intervals on the flat would help maintain your speed, even if you do trail.
Understandable you don't have time for Big Girls; you get a pass on those Wink

OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 20/01/2015 20:27

Hi Big choc, I'm not talented, just have a low resting heart rate, good lungs and legs. And I love running outside whatever the weather, that helpsWink I just wish I'd started running at a young age as I might be a lot better now!
I'm definitely not giving up with the Big Girl press ups - it doesn't take a lot of time and the benefits of core body strength are huge to runners. It isn't all about the legs. And now I know that touching the ground isn't imperative, I can manage a few more.
I have an appointment with a cardiologist on Friday in preparation for an effort test. It is recommended for all adults over 40 and for people doing a marathon so it will be interesting to find out my VO2 max or whatever they test for.

Chocupid · 21/01/2015 14:31

At last found you all!

Wow that's fab Anglaise I'm very impressed and a little envious!

I can't run and struggle with most cardio as I only have half capillaries in my lungs so struggle to breath.
Years ago I bought a book called 'run away from fat' it was great stating day by day how to train from 5mins to a marathon.
but as I worked through it I realised I had no breath and so doc visit revealed my issues. Sad

So I stick to metafit (as it's short) and weight classes like body pump and kettles. Would like to do spin but the same issue with breath so aiming to do gentle cycling in summer. And really need to start Pilates as my core isn't strong, I found out in class today- I couldn't get back up from an Ab roll Blush

ErrolTheDragon · 21/01/2015 16:26

About time I showed my face here. I'm doing L3 of 30DS this week, with the addition of some inclined pressups - having another go at cracking the BGPs again this year. I'm doing 3 sets mon/wed/fri, thought I'd vary it a bit by doing the first set really narrow arm, 2nd about shoulder width, 3rd a bit wider. I think I'll add some attempts on the ground... 90 degrees at the elbow might be doable.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2015 18:52

Welcome, chocupid Big Girl Pressups would strengthen your core, as well as upper body. And you can have extra practice anytime you have a few moments spare at home.
Have you tried rope skipping intervals, to increase fitness ? Say a couple of sets 30 sec skip + 30 sec recovery walk, repeated, then build up over the weeks.

Errol Try the Hand Release pressups, like OP video, again. They do help build up the muscle you need.
Also, concentrate on your core, keeping your entire body (including bum) in a rigid line from toes to shoulders. Hold that for a full minute.
Then keeping rigid, lower yourself with your arms, so that the only movement is just rotating around the elbows.

OP posts:
Chocupid · 21/01/2015 20:16

Thanks Bigchoc i may try the skipping I must keep the few capillaries I do have in good working order!

I can do a few Big Girl Press ups, but obviously don't do them often enough to build strength. (Those shown with the weights look interesting)
Just shows you how different excercises use different muscles, I'm ok at the plank and abs so thought I would be fine, shows me eh Confused

ErrolTheDragon · 21/01/2015 20:35

BC, It's the bottom part of the pressup which is the killer, so I don't think the hand-release ones are for me (yet). I can do the plank row thing (its in JM, alternating row and leg lift) but without the pressup in the middle.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2015 22:06

Errol The hand release pressup will exactly target the bottom bit, because you have to push off the floor to start. So, good practice.

Another approach:
. Get in the upright arm plank position, i.e. only hands and toes on the floor . . Move your hands outwards to the pressup start position
. Lower yourself as far down as you can and then hold for as long as you can
. Repeat say 4 times.

If all else fails, book an hour with a personal trainer, because I think your problem is technique, not lack of strength: you already manage really tough exercises like Shred, so you probably have sufficient muscle power for at least 2 or 3 BGs.
Unfortunately, I can't actually watch you ! However any good trainer should be able to point out the issue and how to correct it.
Most gyms will let you book a trainer without being a member.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 23/01/2015 09:15

BC - well I can see that the hand-release pressup should target the bottom part of the move but I can't get anything to actually happen (without breaking form) ConfusedGrin

Lowering from plank and holding sounds like a doable form of torture though. Thanks

The local gym which is usually membership only put a flyer through which implies they are doing one-off PT sessions in jan and feb so maybe I'll brave it - really don't like that sort of thing.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2015 11:38

I wouldn't normally push a home-exerciser towards a PT, but an hour of your time together might solve a technique issue that is preventing progress.
You need someone to do a close, eyes-on analysis of exactly what you are doing and why it isn't working.

Bite the bullet and let us know what they say

OP posts:
Dumpyandabdabs · 23/01/2015 22:38

Got some new trainers so heading out tomorrow for my first run in about 2 months, just going to start with about 2 miles but will include some sprint intervals (if there's no one watching ha ha).

Does anyone have of those fitbit/garmin watch things, I know they're probably just a gimmick but I'm still tempted. I normally use something like Strava on my phone but these seem a lot more portable as I hate wearing any kind of pack for my phone.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2015 08:23

Good for you Dumpy running with sprint intervals will really boost your fitness. I just go for maximum effort in the set time, but this compares top gadgets.

I'm just back from a 20 min run - to the bakery and back for cheesey brezels !
Well, that's my Saturday treat, sets me up for afternoon HIIT spin and a few Big Girl sets.

OP posts:
Dumpyandabdabs · 24/01/2015 21:13

Thanks for that bigchoc. Will have a think, part of me thinks ooh a new gadget and part of me is thinking its a lot of money for something I don't really need!!

Managed to survive my run/shuffle and even did a couple of snailpacesprints, might even venture back out tomorrow.

Anglaise1 · 25/01/2015 11:23

Dumpy I wear a Fitbit One all the time but for serious running accuracy you need something with a GPS. I have the Garmin Forerunner 220 which isn't the most expensive device but does everything I need accurately: time, distance, speed, interval setting, even calories burnt etc.
Good luck with your running!

Dumpyandabdabs · 25/01/2015 21:10

Thanks Anglaise I'll have a look at all the options and let you know what I decide. Didn't get for a run today but went for a long walk with kids and dog, hoping to get out tomorrow instead. I'm so sick of the mud and the ice and snow, roll on the summer and some drier weather!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2015 22:10

Any exercise newbies: Don't be shy Smile
We've ideas for all levels of fitness, from 1st-time exercisers to real pros < oops, you know what sort of pros I mean Blush >
5:2 burns the fat and exercise helps refine your body, so you look great Smile

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
OP posts:
Breadandwine · 27/01/2015 21:43

Finally got around to trying your double espresso trick this morning, BC -albeit with instant coffee, prior to my HIIT routine.

When I got back in the kitchen I found I'd used my wife's decaff by mistake! Grin

Now up to 6 HIIT sessions of 30 seconds each with a 20 second recovery period. Still takes less than 5 minutes!

I've really cracked this, I feel. I now do an average of 180 steps in that time as against about 140 when I began. My record is 192 - won't be long, I reckon, before I break the 200 mark.

I'll up the sets to 8 very shortly, I feel - and then where do I go? Weighted HIIT? Does anyone do that? Confused

confirmation that strength training is good for us all.

"Strength training and the biomarkers of aging."

Quite a bit of research in there, which you might enjoy, BC! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 27/01/2015 22:45

Decaff Grin
That's great progress with HIIT, B&W and thanks for the links.

I'm just back from 90 mins boxing at the gym, very HIIT and works muscles hard too. Some of these might suit you:
. Several Tabata sessions of successively: burpees, bodyweight squats, extended situps, hand release pressups
. Also, longer HIIT intervals: punching the bag, punching the air with small dumbbells, pushing a 5kg weight to arms length & back. All at a very fast pace.

I do HIIT spin on another day, which also includes Tabata. If you have a stationary bike, you can ramp up speed / resistance just like in my spin.

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 28/01/2015 01:06

Ha, ha, BC - not much progress tonight with my KB! Worst session I've done for a while, full of stops and starts and gaps - but I did it!

And treated myself to another serving of my veg curry afterwards! Not exactly high protein, but if it's good enough for hippos and elephants, etc, it's good enough for me! Grin

Thanks for those tips - unfortunately my knees preclude me from half of those exercises (he said, thankfully [phew]). No bike, I'm afraid - if I had one I probably wouldn't be running on the spot in the pool (which I love!).

But I'll keep some of the other stuff in mind, thanks. Wouldn't do to stand still, now, would it? Smile

I've just had another s/spoon of my curry (now full up), giving me total calories for the day of

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2015 09:48

B&W Can you hang up a punchbag somewhere - do get boxing gloves to protect your joints.
You can do Tabata on the punchbag, plus burpees, pressups, pushing weight plate back / forth very quickly.

To retain / build muscle, you do need 25% TDEE on FDs. Otherwise it slows down progress. See main thread for science basis, plus suggestions how to healthily increase amount of fasting.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2015 21:13

This outlines why HIIT can improve health markers for almost everyone - even those at high risk benefit from supervised HIIT.
A friend of mine in her 70s who had a heart attack was very indignant to be put on a HIIT elliptic trainer routine only a few weeks after surgery Smile

This describes why weight training in particular is good for maintainance after weight loss. Very interesting that lifters moved more outside exercise times too.

Both articles have very useful links to research.

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