Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
Anglaise1 · 11/01/2015 19:38

Did my first ever cross country run today, 5.7kms, just as part of the marathon training. Unfortunately I qualified for the regional finals - today were the déptartemental (county equivalent in UK) so I might have to do an other one in a fortnight for my running club. I was one of the oldest but didn't disgrace myself and managed the race in 27 mins, 74/144 women.
It is so different to endurance running, extremely intense and violent, not to mention muddy. But fun nevertheless.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2015 15:45

Very well done, Anglaise and then qualifying for the regional finals. Wow
Sounds great fun too, much more interesting to do than marathons.

OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 13/01/2015 06:51

BigChoc I was thinking of getting some weights to increase upper body strength (in addition to doing exercises like push ups, plank etc.) Do you weights would help for the arms, and if yes, how on earth do you decide on what weight to use? Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2015 12:21

Anglaise Are you doing the proper Big Girl pressups ? because knees on the ground do very little.

You should get sufficient upper body strength - for a runner - with bodyweight alone (you don't want to drag my heavy muscle 20 km)
I'd recommend building up to:

. 3 sets x 10 reps of Big Girls
. 3 x 20 of tricep dips - with hands on a low step, legs straight

If you want to add barbells / dumbells, you'd obviously need different weights depending on the type of lift.
You find the correct weight for your body by experimenting to see which weight you can only just manage to lift for the recommended number of sets and reps - I recommend 3 sets of 8 reps. The last couple of each set should feel tough
This weight will soon increase, because initial strength gains are rapid.

I suggest these barbell lifts (typical newbie weight)
. bentover row (10 kg)
. deadlift (7.5 kg)
. military press behind the neck (5kg)

Don't bother atm with biceps - they are a comparatively small muscle group, which are automatically worked with the exercises for big groups

OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 13/01/2015 16:40

BCF thanks for your reply. I'll try persevering with the body weight exercises instead and do as you recommend. For the marathon in March I don't want to be anymore weight around, that's for sure! I'll put the weights on hold for the moment Smile

veryseriousgirl · 14/01/2015 15:23

Hi BigChoc - thanks for linking to the thread. It looks great.

BC (before children), I did a lot of long-distance running, and especially enjoyed half-marathons, and worked out with a personal trainer at the gym who was really into weights, and I could deadlift nearly my body weight! AC, I find that it's much harder to justify spending the kind of time I need to train properly, as my long runs were often 2 hrs+ and left me mostly passed out on the sofa for the rest of the day with a slice of cake because I could . And we've moved out into the countryside away from the lovely personal trainer.

At the moment, I'm running 5K 2 - 3 times a week, swimming 1 - 2 times a week, and going to a very intense yoga class once a week. I'm planning to do my first triathlon in June, so need to add in some cycling, but want to build up more core strength to improve my performance in all three disciplines, and add in some more general resistance training - ideally things I can do at home for the moment while I try to figure out how to build workouts at a gym into my routine.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2015 19:07

Welcome, VerySerious That triathlon sounds exciting. I've some suggestions for training at home
Smile
Strength:
. 3 sets x 10 reps of Big Girls (full pressup) Or 3x30 if you are strong
. 3 x 20 of tricep dips - hands on a low step, legs straight. or 3x40

Core:
. 3 sets each: situps holding a weight, plank, side plank with hip raises, leg raises

Special 5:2 Fat Blaster
Rope skipping intervals, say 3 mins skip alternating with 30 secs rest

btw, an HIIT spin might be easier to fit in than cycling outdoors (lights, traffic)

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2015 19:40

You could add some ATG (Arse to Grass) - sets of very deep bodyweight squats

OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 14/01/2015 19:54

OMG big girl press ups are impossible for me. I managed 2 Blush
I can run, but didn't realise how weak my arms were. Its going to take a couple of months to get to 3 sets of 10 reps.
Tricep dips are more successful, thank goodness.

MazzleDazzle · 14/01/2015 20:18

BG press-ups are my weakness too Anglaise! I'm still crap and I've been practising for a year now. It'll take a decade before I manage 10 reps!

Yesterday:

  • first work out in a month!
  • PT session - warmed up with a jog, then kettlebells, then 10 mins of burpees. Killer!

Today:

  • jogged 2.5K
  • uphill sprint intervals
  • boxing intervals (30 secs, 10 sec rest x 12)
  • plank (2 x 30 sec)

Really pleased that I managed to do a workout on my own. I prefer a class, but they're few and far between out in the sticks and tough to fit around work and kids.

I'm keen to buy my own kettlebell so I could do it at home. I did buy a wee one for Kettlersize, but I'd like to decent one. Any tips?

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2015 00:18

Mazzle Sounds like 5 or 7 kg kbell would suit you.

You and Anglaise would rapidly increase pressups with practice - do a set every other day.

OK, rate your strength !

FULL pressups within 1 minute for strength to be rated “fair” ….”Top fitness” (US Cooper Institute):

  • Age 20 – 29, Women 15…42 / Men 29 … 62
  • Age 30 – 39, Women 11…39 / Men 24… 52
  • Age 40 – 49, Women 9…20 / Men 18…40
  • Age 50 – 59, Women ? / Men 13…39
  • Age 60+ Women ? / Men 10…28

Huh, no figures for age 58, but I can do 50+ in 1 minute.

How about YOU Hmm < raises eyebrow >

OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 15/01/2015 06:42

Wow BCF you are be a real power house, 50+ in a minute Shock
I'll see if I can do more than 2 today. I'm sure it is like anything else, with practice it's possible, but I'm certain I'll never get anywhere near your total!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2015 16:18

Horses for courses:
You guys are distance running specialists, with endurance. I lift, box and do HIIT spin but only 60-90 minute sessions.
I occasionally run 30 metre sprint intervals, but no further. Even over a mile, you'd run twice as fast as me. As for 20k ... I'd have to walk that !

OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 15/01/2015 17:57

My tummy muscles are aching (probably due to the 3 sets of 10 tricep dips I managed yesterday). So I only managed 2 press ups Blush
OTOH did my long weekly run today of 13 miles in 2 hours, wasn't out of breath for any of it and didn't even break into a sweat.
Horses for courses indeed!

Anglaise1 · 15/01/2015 18:12

I suppose planks aren't as effective as press ups, BigChoc? I can manage them without too much difficulty!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2015 22:47

Planks add some upper body strength and are great for the core. They help pressups, which require a strong core.

However, the ability to do pressups indicates the power:weight ratio of your upper body. So, get pressing !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2015 22:49

Well done on the workout, Mazzle
Yup, burpees totally suck, but they do the business

OP posts:
MazzleDazzle · 17/01/2015 19:24

Love a tricep dip, Anglaise! One of my fav. exercises. I get a sadistic pleasure from the next day's tricep burn Grin.

As for the press-ups, I can't get up. Better that than shallower dips, I guess.

Oh, and the reason I popped on here: I have a question. Should you only stretch once your muscles are warmed up, ie can't you just stretch, for stretching's sake? If you have to warm up before stretching, how does yoga work?

Found these hip stretches which look fab.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2015 20:16

You can warm up before exercise with dynamic stretches, i.e. involving movement. Cold muscles can sometimes be injured by static stretches, so better to do any of those after exercise rather than before.
My system:
. Dynamic stretches during warmup
. Do your exercise
. Dynamic cooldown (for cardiovascularsystem)
. Static stretches

OP posts:
MazzleDazzle · 18/01/2015 18:36

Thanks for clearing that up BC.

I've worked out 4 times in the last 7 days. Haven't managed that in months. It feels good to be getting back into it. Looking forward to my prior fitness level returning!

Anglaise1 · 18/01/2015 19:46

Congratulations on your work outs Mazzle. Sounds like you are really getting back into things and most importantly, enjoying your workouts.
I'm addicted to running at the moment, had one day off last week and ran 75 kms. I'm trying my best to do the core exercises too.
BigChoc how far down should press ups go? Does a part of you (chin, chest etc.) have to touch the ground to be a real Big Girl Press up? I can go sort of half way ish but I'm not well endowed in the chest dept so there is a long way down to go Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2015 20:10

Anglaise It's not really required that your chest or nose touch the floor.
I know some extreme trainers push this, but ignore them - in fact it may injure the shoulder joints.
Just go for a 90 degree angle at the elbows.

btw, I tend to get sore wrists after long sets, as I can't use my knuckles [old bag emoticon], so I'm going to try with handles again. Or have both hands and feet on steps.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2015 20:17

If you want a change, this is very tough for upper body & core:
To keep you interested, B&W ?

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
OP posts:
MazzleDazzle · 19/01/2015 08:24

Wow, Anglaise! 75k is incredible.

That's reassuring that we don't need to touch the floor. Currently, if I try to go all the way down I collapse, but I can just manage a few shallower press ups. Not quite 90 degrees though.

MazzleDazzle · 19/01/2015 19:13

Tried Cage Fitness today. It was awesome!

It was just a taster session within my usual PT session, but it's def. something I'd like to do again.

Swipe left for the next trending thread