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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
plecofjustice · 13/08/2014 13:07

Hmm, I've been thinking about HIIT and swimming. I'm coming into my third week of inaction after injuries. First a bad sprain to my lower back which rendered me pretty much immobile for a week, and definitely not gym-fit in the second week. I've been compensating for my back and, by doing so, have sprained my hamstring which hurts and spasms when I walk and is not really gym-fit. I've done a bit of gentle yoga, but nothing like my usual yoga as I'm so worried I'm going to fall and re-injure myself.

Going back on Monday, and a bit worried about how I'm going to be. I can already feel like fitness has gone and I'm annoyed with all the hurty bits and not sure quite where to start going back.

I've done a bit of gentle swimming during the no-gym period, so maybe some HIIT swimming is the answer......?

plecofjustice · 13/08/2014 13:08

But in answer to your question B&W, my pool is a proper international training pool, so too deep to stand, so I've never tried..

Breadandwine · 13/08/2014 13:18

You do need some sort of floor, that's true! Grin

Never mind.

Hope you're soon able to resume your exercises.

plecofjustice · 13/08/2014 13:24

I've got to soon, otherwise I'll lose weight by eating my own legs off in frustration!! Grin

Maybe treading water would work??

BigChocFrenzy · 13/08/2014 19:24

In the pool, running on the spot is the easiest HIIT, probably easier to set interval times and you need so little space. It would be less stress on joints than running on land.
However, it uses different muscle groups to swimming and wouldn't improve the swimming speed in the same way as proper swimming HIIT would.

Just choose what best suits your aims and body.

Pleco I know you don't want to, but I suggest having a full 7-10 days without training, to let your body repair these nagging injuries. Otherwise, you could be below par for several weeks, maybe even worsen injuries.
Just have a short daily walk and a lot of gentle stretching. Also, lower your calories to compensate.

OP posts:
MazzleDazzle · 14/08/2014 08:52

In 3 weeks I'm running the Beast Race (a 10K, 30 obstacle course).

Haven't worked out in 4 weeks!

I'm pretty rural and most classes are at least 30 mins drive away. Since returning to work, I just haven't got the time to go any more.

I have a set of weights (5K each), a decent pair of trainers, boxing gloves/pads and a fair amount of space. Any training suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Chocupid · 14/08/2014 10:00

Hurt my back last week so haven't been to the gym for 10 days now.
It's a reoccurring thing so thinking I need to strengthen my core.

I thought I had strong abs, do them no problem in classes... but tried a Pilates class and found it really really hard, obviously need to work that inner corset!!
I already do the plank but how else do I strengthen my core, any ideas?

BigChocFrenzy · 14/08/2014 17:38

mazzle Good luck with The Beast !
Loads of exercise you can do at home. Here are some suggestions:

Strength
At most 2 days per week
Not HIIT - do slow, heavy loading of your muscles

. Bodyweight: pressups, deep squats
. On Step: tricep dips
. Weights: bench press, shoulder press, bentover row

Try 3 sets, each of 10 reps for bodyweight, 10-20 with weights, 30 on step

HIIT Running Blast
Do ONCE on maximum 3 days per week

.Warmup for 1-4 mins,
.20 sec sprint as hard as you can, at a level where you can't do another 2 secs.
.about 2 min gentle jog / walk to recover
.another 20 sec burst at max intensity.
.final recovery period of 2-4 mins jog or walk

HIIT Punching a bag or pads
. FAST punching forward 3 sets of 30 secs each, with 20 sec break
. 1 min break
. HEAVY Left and right hooks 3 sets
. 1 min break
. HEAVY Left and right uppercuts 3 sets
. 1 min break
. FAST punching upward 3 sets

HIIT circuits
At most every other day

Choose 1 or more exercises like these:
Punching, press-ups, sit-ups, plank, weighted bench press, weighted row, squats, lunges, rope skipping, jumping jacks, sprints, step-ups, mountain climb ...

.Brief warmup for 1-4 mins
. Do 1 exercise as hard as you can for 30 secs . Rest 15secs .
. Repeat these work / recovery intervals for as long as you can, with different exercises or all the same. Start say at 5 mins total and build up to 20 mins .
. Brief cool-down

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/08/2014 20:41

Chocupid Your core includes your lower back as well as your abs. If you have frequent back injuries, your core development may not be balanced between the two.

Try these (start with a few reps, build up to suggested #):

. Check your plank form You should have a straight line from shoulders to heels, i.e. don't stick your bum in the air
Aim for 2x 30-45 secs on 2 days per week

. Side plank with hip raises Feet on top of each other, straight line upper shoulder to upper foot. Then move hip up and down.
2 sets of 10-20 each side.

. Leg raise Lie flat on your back, with bent legs. Lower your legs one at a time to 1" above the floor (straighten leg if you can) then raise again.

2 sets of 10-20 each side.

. Situps, hands forward, without any gadgets. This ensures you really work your muscles.
3 sets of 15.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/08/2014 20:42

Also for core, do Big Girls: they work the abs as well as upper body

OP posts:
Chocupid · 14/08/2014 20:54

Aww Thanks Bigchoc for quick reply.
I will try and make these routine.
as I found out in Pilates I'm definitely not balanced.... I was shaking it was so hard!

Breadandwine · 15/08/2014 05:20

Here's someone else saying just what BC's been saying about exercise.

My progress continues apace:
On Wednesday I completed 90% of the routine I've set myself - albeit with a couple of minutes rest between exercises;
Yesterday, I did 3.5, 4.9, 5 and 5, in my four pull up reps - so almost back to where I was before my accident;
Handstands - I'm now resting my feet on the 5th stair whilst holding my position for 4 x 1 minute. I can almost get my feet to stick on a wall - maybe on Saturday. I'll shortly be needing to look at how to dismount from a handstand - using the pirouette turn (I think it's called).
and
Good luck with the 'Beast', Maz - and sympathies to you both, Chocupid and justice.

I'm up at this time 'cos I'm unable to sleep. I did a 24hr LOF yesterday, finishing off with a

MazzleDazzle · 16/08/2014 08:57

Thank you BC! I knew I could rely on you. Thanks

I have written up a chart following your routines. Today is Day 1! Will have to be careful at the mo though as I'm recovering from an ankle injury. Going to see a someone about it tomorrow. I need it to be in tip top form for the race. I fear I've injured it so many times now that it's my weak spot.

Don't say the 'b' word B&W! I'll cave. They are one of my many weaknesses Biscuit Biscuit Biscuit Grin

Breadandwine · 17/08/2014 12:02

Are those who exercise more tolerant of pain? Seems so.

Breadandwine · 20/08/2014 02:02

Me too, Maz! Grin

Just wanted to boast that after only 5 sessions, I've now reached the level of chin ups I was doing before my 9-week layoff - in fact I'm now doing better - tonight I did 6, 5, 5, 5!

And yesterday I did 94% of my kettlebell exercises.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/08/2014 07:52

Well done, b&w
When you are very fit, muscle memory enables you to quickly regain previous capability level after a break.
Those pullups are excellent. You must show them off to your DS.

Mazzle We want a blow by blow account after the The Beast. Smash it !

OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 25/08/2014 13:43

What is your opinion of coconut water BigChco? Is it good for keeping hydrated during a marathon, for example?

BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2014 15:15

Anglaise For a marathon, or for any hard run 90+mins, coconut water alone won't replenish all the minerals lost from sweat, or supply enough carbs for energy.
Rather a nice discussion on this in RunnersWorld

Homemade suggestion
should supply potassium, sodium and energy in correct proportions:

  • 140 ml (1/2 cup) orange juice
  • 60 ml (1/4 cup) lemon juice
  • 800 ml water (you can optionally make some of this coconut water, but keep mostly as water, at least at first)
-1/4 teasp salt (NOT low-sodium)
  • Honey / sugar / sweetener to taste

For high intensity runs < 1hr, you shouldn't need carbs, but maybe a zero-cal electrolyte drink instead of just water.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2014 15:22

During the day, or as recovery, if you like something more interesting than water, coconut water is a good healthy drink.
250ml has about 35 cals and 9g carbs, so should not impact any eating plan except low carb (which I k ow you don't do)

Another low cal healthy drink is almond milk. Tasty cold with a bit of cinnamon.
I also use it for my cocoa.

OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 25/08/2014 19:59

Thanks Bigchoc - I read 'Running like a Girl' and the author only drank coconut water for her marathons...I wondered if it was enough. I really don't want to take gels and would rather do your homemade suggestion. For any runs of under 1 hour I don't take anything, except water if it is really hot.
I've never heard of almond milk but I eat almonds in vast quantities. My favourite snack. I never seem to put on weight despite eating lots!

MollyBdenum · 25/08/2014 20:32

BigChoc, I need some exercise help. I've joined a gym and have my induction next week, so I need to think about what I want to ask them to help me to do.

I'm 39, so I reckon that I should be trying to put on lots of muscle now to see me past the menopause. I would like to be able to lift heavy stuff, but my pelvic floor is not what it once was, so I'd rather avoid anything that puts it under too much strain. I think you've mentioned stuff to avoid before. And cardio, including at least one HIIT session a week. Is there anything else I should be thinking about? I can spare 5 mornings a week, for up to an hour.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2014 21:57

Hi Molly Well done on deciding to exercise seriously.
It really will help maintain weight & health as you approach and go through meno.
Smile
Right, with 5 mornings I suggest 3 x cardio and 2 x strength, but some classes may be a mixture.
. Cardio ntbo is important for cardiovascular health and fat-burning
. Weight-lifting is important for bone density, to avoid later osteoporosis.
It will build and maintain muscle, which is important for health now, as well as helping retain independence in old age.
Building muscle helps maintain or even increase TDEE as you lose weight / fat.
You should avoid injury if you build up sensibly. Your eventual aim should be to lift your own body (pressups, squats, dips) and say max 20-40 kg barbells. You can judge your limit later.
. Flexibility can be achieved by dynamic stretching before - and static stretching after - classes.
You don't need a yoga class or whatever for this. However, while building up fitness, you might want an easy yoga day, if you find 5 tough days too hard.

What to Ask
. Martial arts classes - e.g. taebo, box fitness, taekwondo - are brilliant. Definitely do if available.
They combines cardio, strength, flexibility, plyometrics.
If you hit a punchbag, that also helps bone density.
. Lifting Explain you don't want pink girlie 2 kg weights or crazy high weights, but to build muscle safely.
So, not just "toning." (meaningless word, anyway)
. Demonstration A trainer should show you the correct form of the most important weightlifting exercises:
Bodyweight - Big Girl pressups, deep squats, tricep dips, plank, situps with hands forward
Barbell / dumbbell- squats, bentover row, bench press, tricep press
. Weights Check they have a decent selection of barbells & weights and somewhere you could lift weights on your own, if you want.
. Pump / Boot Camp / Circuit Training / CrossFit / KettleBell classes will all have strength training, with / without HIIT. Do at least 1 such class.
. Spin class, especially HIIT or interval type. Do at least 1 per week.
. Running If you like it, ask if they have an outdoor running group, NOT treadmills.
Sprints are excellent HIIT cardio
If you like longer distances, keep under 90 mins, to avoid straining immune system or heart.

What to AVOID:
(1) Treadmills, elliptical trainers, most other machines
These bring much less benefit than claimed, but many gyms like to stick you on these, because it is convenient for them.
Don't let trainer waste time pushing / showing you these.
(2) Nutrition advice. They may push Weight Watchers, weird juice diets, low carb, low fat, or just protein shakes that give them profit.
Probably best not to mention IF / 5:2 because an ignorant lecture on starvation mode wastes your time.

Miscell
. Creche terms (if you need one) ?
. Sauna, pool ?
. Do they have free filtered water or do you bring your own water
. Do you need to book in advance, to secure limited places , e.g. to get a bike in spin class
. Are there any free Personal Trainer sessions

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 26/08/2014 18:33

You don't do things by halves, BC, do you! Grin

It's not always a straight upward trajectory with exercise, is it? My last two press up sessions:

3 days ago - 7, 8.99, 7, 7 - I just couldn't get my chin up for that 9th one!

Last night - 4, 7, 5, 4! Confused We'll see how it goes tomorrow.

But I found my weighted press ups so doable, that for the last set I just kept going and reached 35 before giving up. Tomorrow I'll see just how many non-weighted press ups I can do in one go.

On the kb front I'm almost there - managed one set of 19 the other day to go with all the sets of 20 I can do. Mind you, the other 3 were 15, 14, 15.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/08/2014 19:11

Press-up Rating

FULL pressups within 1 minute for strength to be rated “fair” ….”Top fitness” (US Cooper Institute):

  • Age 20 – 29, Women 15…42 / Men 29 … 62
  • Age 30 – 39, Women 11…39 / Men 24… 52
  • Age 40 – 49, Women 9…20 / Men 18…40
  • Age 50 – 59, Women N.A. / Men 13…39
  • Age 60+ , Women N.A. / Men 10…28

Apparently they don't expect women to exist / be fit past 49 Angry
Well, aged 58 I can do about 50 in 1 minute. If I train specifically for it, I might reach 60.

B&W, anyone else:
How do you rate on the BigGirl scale ? Hmm

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 29/08/2014 21:01

50 press ups in 57 secs. Grin

Might be ready to challenge my son in about a month, I reckon!

In the meantime, I've set myself a new target.

I like everything I've read and heard from this guy - Todd Becker, he of hormesis fame and the blog 'Getting Stronger" - so I'm following his advice on reversing myopia

Today I bought a pair of Plus 2.50 reading glasses, and I'm looking at a slightly blurred screen right now.

I'll let you all know how I get on.