Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
BigChocFrenzy · 29/08/2014 21:28

Well done on the pressups, B&W
Do let us know how you get on with reversing myopia. I have prescription 16 optic (!) & other eye problems, so really need a guinea pig

OP posts:
Strokethefurrywall · 02/09/2014 02:55

Well here I am BigChoc - I got 3 full form press ups and 20 fully formed burpees in tonight! My burpees form is definitely improving, tomorrow it's 5 push ups and 25 burpees.

I definitely agree HIIT works wonders, I used to do Insanity and a HIIT running program along with my marathon training but obviously pregnancy and childbirth put paid to that, although I continued walking 7 tall flights of stairs upward of 8 times a day until a week before I had the baby.

Now I just want to get that fitness back - weight is gone, just want the tone back!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2014 11:25

Welcome, Stroke Now, let's get strong !
Smile
Try sets of 8 inclined pressups at whatever angle you can manage, then reduce the angle as you improve.
So, maybe start with hands on a dining table or stair and move to hands on doorstep or lower stair.

Also, try the XFit pressups (on the ground) in the movie above. They help build up strength in th muscles you need

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2014 11:33

Calculate your % body fat and then see what % to roughly aim for, to be really good at your sport:

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
OP posts:
Breadandwine · 04/09/2014 13:57

I'm just a kid next to

Everyone should see this video! I'll put it on the Tips and Links thread.

Breadandwine · 05/09/2014 00:47

Once you start looking on YouTube, you (I!) just can't stop - there's just so much out there.

Here's Dr Mike Mosley . They begin discussing Intermittent Fasting and Mosley's book, The Fast Diet - then they go on to talk about HIIT and Mosley's Fast Exercise book. Finally, Dr Mercola mentions High-Intensity Strength Training (HIST) - a new one on me. Apparently this involves slowing down the reps of each exercise, which makes them more challenging. But you only need to do one set of each exercise. I tried it with my kettlebell lifts and was only able to do half the reps I could do when I'm doing them quickly.

Then I found , the HIST guru on the subject.

Absolutely fascinating.

Seems to me - although I may be mistaken - that HIST shortens the time taken by weight training just as HIIT reduces the time needed for aerobics.

The two together could give optimum fitness - coupled with IF, of course! Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 05/09/2014 14:33

Hello all - haven't been here for a while. Doing the dear old shred to get myself back into the swing after the hols - the plan was a week (ie 5 days) on each level and then decide what to do next, but only managed 4 days this week and last (a lot of yesterday disappeared picking up my new car).

I've only done my inclined pressups once this week, need to do more of those and extra weights/planks. Sigh. The shred has some pressups so I was trying to see how far I could get and what 'gives' first - I think it's my shoulders/upper back just don't want to let me go far down. I'm wondering if some of it is that I've got very sloping shoulders - DD is almost exactly the same height as me but hers are a couple of inches above mine!

Breadandwine · 05/09/2014 20:07

Hi Errol

BC must be away, I reckon, but have you tried the press ups where you start off on the floor? I couldn't get more than halfway down when I started, but BC gave me the tip about starting off on the floor and I was away. Once I could do a few of these I was able to start from the normal position.

HTH!

ErrolTheDragon · 05/09/2014 22:40

Hi B&W - BC is around on the main 5:2 thread... when I last tried the xfit type, I couldn't get off the ground...just tried again, can't keep body rigid enough, pelvis won't budge till chest is several inches up. Hmph... that probably means its shoulders and core doesn't it. That was a useful test, so thanks!

BetsyBell · 06/09/2014 08:29

Wow, I'd dropped off this thread big time - it's not even featuring in my "I'm on" list anymore Sad

I'm seriously failing to post and I'm failing to fast. Here's my current dilemma: weight is entirely stable at my current activity levels and my eating is healthy and apparently self regulating - no frenzies or desire to over-eat. My activity levels are going to go up as I'm going intensive with my tae kwon do training for the foreseeable future, and therefore also with other training to keep me fighting fit.

So, I'm at a bit of a mental stumbling block and I need to find a new routine. I do want to fast one day a week. Wednesday is always going to be a day of training so I guess that would be the one to choose. It won't fit in with my DH unfortunately as that's one of his training days, but he's been doing this long enough to find his own routine!

BetsyBell · 06/09/2014 08:31

B&W Your links look excellent - I must find time to look at them...

BigChocFrenzy · 06/09/2014 17:49

Errol Press-ups require you to keep your body rigid in a straight line from shoulders to heels.
I said when you posted earlier on the main thread that your symptoms sound like weak core / lower back.
You need to do leg raises and deadlifts for the lower back.
Also, during plank keep your bum low, so you are in that same straight line you need for Big Girls.

XFit press-ups are useful, because they build up the muscles you need, but the loading is for a shorter period than Big Girls. Some others on this thread progressed from XFit to BGs.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/09/2014 17:53

When you do the Xfit, keep in the straight line - don't lift your shoulders if your pelvis is not in line, or you are not doing the exercise properly.

Much better to do say 2 sets of 5 attempts even just getting 1 inch off the ground, thus training the weak muscles, rather than lifting shoulders first.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/09/2014 17:56

Betsy You sound as if you are doing very well and improving your fitness, just with your current regime. Do you feel you need an FD or a change ?

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 09/09/2014 10:55

I would like to continue to have fast days in my routine bigchoc - as an advocate for doing for the health benefits I feel loathe to stop just because I'm happy with my body shape! Besides, there is still plenty of flab to deal with on my pear shaped frame, though even my thighs are really improving in shape with all the lovely lovely muscles developing.

However, it is interesting to note, that without over-indulging particularly I don't have that need to have the 'full stop' that a fast day brings. Maybe I've found the right balance.

I'm fasting tomorrow so we'll see what happens! Spotted a typo above -Wednesday is a day off training, so a good day for me to fast.

errol I found the xfit type of press ups really useful for getting the right muscles activated for doing BGs. After a few weeks of xfit I had no problem doing BGs - I've seen it work for other members of my martial arts club too. They are not necessarily easier, but it is possible to do them effectively in a way the BGs seem impossible at first.

Breadandwine · 09/09/2014 22:06

Sitting too long isn't good for you - we know that now - but here's a study showing how this can be overcome.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2014 22:33

Errol Core Exercise 1

Get into plank position, the variant where your hands are on the floor, not your forearms.

Keep your bum down, so you always remain in a straight line. Then:

. Move your hands inwards (narrow) then outwards (wide) for a set of 10
. Next, keep your hands at shoulder width and move your legs to the wide position, then inwards again, for a set of 10.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2014 22:37

*Core Exercise 1
Lie on your back, arms wide or above your head.
Make your bum, abs and legs rigid

. Keeping your legs straight, raise them so the heels are about 18" above ground
. Still straight, lower them so heels are about 2" above floor
Repeat leg raise and lower for a set of 8

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2014 22:41

Core Exercise 3
Lie on your back, legs almost flat on the floor - knees raised about 2"
. Put your arms straight in the air
. Keeping your arms straight, sit up nearly vertical, so your arms are horizontal
Repeat for a set of 8

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2014 22:43

Oops, post in the middle was Core Exercise 2

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 11/09/2014 22:02

Thanks BC, I'll give those a go. Some of the JM moves are similar - (1) looks OK (I can do plank jacks no problems); just tried (3), that seems fine too (easier than situps). (3) now there's the thing, it's the first bit where the small of the back isn't flat to the floor which seems to cause back strain. I can do leg lifts if I've got a bit of support under my butt to keep my back flat, or if I start with them down and then lower till the point where back starts to arch, and up again.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/09/2014 11:35

Needing a bit of back support is because you aren't (can't ?) keeping the whole shoulders to lower trunk rigid.
If you also have trouble with Xfits, then definitely an issue of core strength rather than shoulders / arms.
Just keep strengthening the core with Exercises 1-4, also via XFit attempts

Core Exercise 4
When you are in the "straight-arm" plank position, hands on floor:
. Move hands to wide position
. Keeping body rigid and in a straight line, try bending the arms to lower yourself, i.e. starting a pressup from the already raised position
. Again, a set of 8

OP posts:
icanmakeyouicecream · 13/09/2014 11:49

Count me in! Planning on doing an hours walking everyday coupled with a yoga session lasting 30 mins.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/09/2014 12:13

Welcome, ican
Smile
Also try some of your walking as "intervals* - 2 mins brisk pace, 2 mins normal. That increases the fitness benfit

OP posts:
icanmakeyouicecream · 13/09/2014 12:18

Thank you for the tip! I shall be pushing a buggy with 1 stone of baby and 2 stone of toddler so hopefully that will help!