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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
Baloostika · 31/07/2014 21:11

Hello everyone, it's been a while I've been on here.
I just want to ask what u guys thing, I have just started a daily 10k walk/jog intervals and I do my my strength training in addition to this on 3 non consecutive days and also I add abs and other workouts and I exercise 5 times a week. I'm doing this to see if my Weightloss can be accelerated as it's at a breakneck slowwwww speed.
What do u think, I love the walks.

Breadandwine · 31/07/2014 23:46

Tks, BC! No intention whatsoever of doing handstand pressups!

I'm only doing trying them so I can show off!

BB, give us a wave at J25 if you're coming down the M5! And have a lovely holiday.

Local fun day today - around 140 kids made around 140 pizzas, mostly in this Dragon oven! Hard work, but we had a good team - 2 on the oven and 2/3 supervising the assembling.

Great fun! Grin

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
BigChocFrenzy · 01/08/2014 00:09

140 kids ! You are probably rocking in a dark corner now with Wine
That dragon looks scary too, B&W Grin

Have you tried plyometrics ?
The pressup version below would be another good progression / variation to extend your repertoire.

Plyometric Exercises
PlyO Great for building explosive power and muscle.
I've tried several of the PlyEx in gym classes and these are my personal favourites ...

Press-ups
My PT warned me against the clap pressup - too many showoffs get injured, but these are safe and excellent: PressPlankShuffle (needs a heavy medicine ball)

Throws
Advanced plyometrics with a heavy medicine ball, but you can start with a light beach ball.

With a partner: OverheadThrow , SideTwsitThrow , SitupThrow]
(beginners: just situp together and throw the ball a few inches)
If you are alone: SitThrowWall
(beginners: standing, just throw the ball overhead behind you)

Jumps (not for dodgy knees)
Beginners can just jump in the air and bring your knees up high
Then progress to these:
LowMarch , /www.exrx.net/Plyometrics/BoxLateralJump.html LateralJump , BoxJumps

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/08/2014 00:13

oops, near the bottom should be LateralJump

OP posts:
Chocupid · 03/08/2014 09:38

Hi all, Still struggling to get back into 5:2 after falling of the wagon (currently on Laska's backsliders thread)...

But I'm in a good routine now with my exercise, I'm currently doing metafit and kettles Monday, body pump wed, metafit Friday and body pump sat.

I'm really enjoying it and boy do I know about it at next class if I miss any..

but don't feel like I'm getting stronger especially my arms and shoulders they feel so weak and pathetic!

Not sure if I can keep increasing the weight without injury though (have had shoulder issues, physio thinks the problem is round shoulders after breast reduction last year)

Currently lift 5-7 arms and 10-15 legs squats lunges etc
Any advice please? More weight or more push ups?

BigChocFrenzy · 03/08/2014 12:59

Hi Chocupid Glad to hear you are enjoying exercise.
Smile
I recommend more Big Girl press-ups rather than increasing the weights. Press-ups are excellent for improving upper body and abs strength.

Tricep dips on a step will help the backs of your arms; deep bodyweight squats strengthen legs and bum.

The number of reps per set you give sounds like you already are lifting as heavy as you can, anyway.

I'm wondering from your description of the classes if they are mostly fast moving, aerobic - some gyms are obsessed with burning calories.
To build strength you need at least some sets to be fairly slow with heavier weights and pauses, so the muscles are loaded and unloaded over a longer period of time, with recovery breaks.

Or it could be your body just needs more time to build up strength, especially if you only had the operation last year.

Important Make sure you get enough rest, because that is when the muscles grow.
If you are working those muscles 4 days per week, then 45-60 min sessions are plenty, if the weights are suitable.
If classes don't include stretches, then do dynamic stretches beforehand, then afterwards stretches and optionally 10 mins cool-down walk outside.

OP posts:
Chocupid · 03/08/2014 20:33

Thanks bigchoc yes the classes are good not aerobic (apart from metafit) and go at your own speed.

So i will do some big girl press pjs at home daily to build up.

Maybe I'm impatient (understatement of the year!) but expected more of a difference in the last 6wks really.

Chocupid · 04/08/2014 00:00

Press pjs?? Press ups!

Anglaise1 · 05/08/2014 15:31

Big Choc I don't really do anything special for a half marathon now as I've done 5 in the last 5 months so am getting used to them!
I've never had nipple chafing but my feet get a big sore on road running. I might treat myself and go and see a podologue (chiropodist?) before doing the marathon next year. I try not to do too much running the week before a race so as to rest, and I think it helps to eat more carbs Tues - Fri but I didn't really bother this time. Also drink a lot of water the week before, not the morning of the race. You don't want to stop and wee all the time.
Next race is September a 39km trail race (gulp) which will be a real test. It is equivalent to around 46kms on the road in terms of effort (so more than a marathon) and will take at least 4 hours to do. In order to prepare for that it is more marathon training, so at least one outing a week of 2.5 to 3 hours.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/08/2014 17:42

Anglaise I mentioned upthread that a runner friend recommended Sweatshop to me:
they have a wonderfully clever machine which measures feet / stance / gait and automatically produces appropriate trainer liners - you just swap the liners in whatever pair of running shoes you wear that day.

She does 10ks and says it compensated for her gait when running, so helps her feet & legs. I also found mine useful when walking.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/08/2014 17:45

You must be awesomely fit to manage that long trail race Shock
Trail running sounds a lot more interesting than ordinary runs, especially marathons, which must get a bit monotonous.
Probably a more interesting and varied load for the body.

OP posts:
Anglaise1 · 06/08/2014 08:54

I haven't done it yet, Big Choc! The most I have done is 27kms so it will be a real test. I'm confident I can manage it, but I need to up my training. One long run of 2.5 - 3 hours at least once a week Shock
Am having a 'break' from running and will rest now for 10 days then I'll start the training seriously.
Do you think rest is important?

Labracadabra · 06/08/2014 18:06

I'm off on holiday tomorrow night and I daren't take my dumbells with me as DH will be livid due to space/weight in car etc (although his golf clubs get a space!) so should I just focus on press ups and tricep dips to keep working my arms whilst I'm away? Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2014 20:18

Anglaise Rest is vital for your body to recover and rebuild muscle, especially with the very strenuous training and events that you do.

Runners who do more than 90 mins in a session need to be careful about their immune system
Some useful advice for endurance runners: MarathonImmune , RunnersWorld

After your tough duo, I'd suggest 3 days complete rest, then a gentle exercise day, NO running:
a walk or a slow cycle for say 45 mins. Or work your upper body for 20 mins with pressups, front deltoid raises, tricep dips.
Then 2-3 days rest and another gentle non-running day, followed by your final rest days.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2014 20:20

Labra I'm Confused why your DH objects to taking your dumbbells, unless you lift heavy and are taking 50 kg barbells.

Well, never mind, plenty of bodyweight and cardio exercises that need no equipment:

Strength
press-ups, tricep dips, deep squats, walking lunges, sit-ups, plank, side plank, wall-sit
Cardio
jumping jacks, sprint intervals, step-ups, mountain climb, rope skipping (surely room for a rope !)

Check out Mosely's Fast Fitness and Fast Strength blasts I posted upthread.

OP posts:
Labracadabra · 06/08/2014 22:49

Thanks bcf. No they're not 50kgWink but the car is crammed with 2 adults, baby, toddler and 2 Labradors plus all their associated stuff! I have packed my trainers and workout gear though so will run a bit and do as you suggest. Thanks again.

Anglaise1 · 07/08/2014 07:41

Thanks Big Choc excellent advice. I know rest is important but I'm always scared of losing my muscle tone. But I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen until after 2 weeks of no exercise.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/08/2014 22:39

Anglaise From the literature, you should retain muscle tone & fitness for at least 2 weeks.
Just concentrate on nutritious eating within TDEE - people who lose form after short breaks do so because of too many cals or junk / booze.

You have good habits however, so you should find increased energy on your return.
Smile
If you are concerned, then on each "gentle exercise day" only, try ONE short sprint blast:
. walk a few mins
. sprint flat out, duration 30 secs to max 4 mins
. walk 5 mins to cooldown
That's just enough to be useful, but not enough to interfere with your 10 days rest.

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 07/08/2014 22:58

Wow, Anglaise! BC's right, awesome's the word!

Bought my 9kg kb today - will start using it tomorrow. In the meantime, I've put my 6kg kb in my backpack - so my weighted pressups are now 8kg. Last set's quite hard, but doable. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 08/08/2014 00:56

B&W Enjoy your new 9kg kb - until that is too light as well, you he-man Grin !
Excellent progress with the weighted pressups.
On one day, try loading your rucksac with enough weight so you can only do a set of 6 reps.

Do try that "press / plank on a ball" exercise too, from my plyometrics post. I found that loaded my upper body muscles quite differently.

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 09/08/2014 01:57

Thanks, BC! Not sure 'enjoy' is the word I'd use, ATM! Grin Struggled a bit with it tonight - but still completed 81% of the exercises I'd set my myself. Found the lifts the hardest, as was to be expected - doing about 50% of those. While the swings were no problem.

I'll try both of those suggestions - why wouldn't I, when your advice has been so beneficial to me? Flowers

Breadandwine · 11/08/2014 11:18

My finger splint has now come off - after 9 weeks - but I've to put it on when I go to bed, for the next 2 months.

Still not allowed to swing my kettlebell with my right hand - the muscles in my left arm are now noticeably bigger than my right! However, I can do the shoulder lifts, so I'll probably double up on those! I'm also OK to start pull ups again.

After a day of rest on Saturday, I began using my new kb - and managed 81% of my programme. !00% of the swings and as low as 50% of the lifts. Plus I'm leaving a longer gap between sets.

I don't think it'll take too long to master this weight - so I'm aiming for a 16kg kb by early in the new year! Grin

I'm going to start a new post on my blog: "If I can do this at 76 - what's stopping you?" Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 12/08/2014 08:31

Good news, that you can ditch the splint during the day; I thought it was originally just for 6 weeks, must have been so frustrating for you.

All from a texting accident, a warning to us all how even very minor accidents can affect us for months.

Never mind, I'm sure you will soon build up the right arm to match the other. Try 2-3 pull-ups and see how you feel the next day.

Your progress has been phenomenal. That's a good idea to add a new blog section that details your fitness progress.
It'll put the younger chaps on their metal Grin

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/08/2014 09:12

Drinks for Summer Training

. Most sports drinks are touted for "energy" (quick carbs), which you shouldn't need unless training for 2hr+

. Protein Shakes help after a heavy lifting session, but are unnecessary for the typical gym pump session

. Electrolyte drinks replace ions lost through heavy sweating, not necessary for typical gym training, but essential for longer distance runners.

I didn't think I needed extra electrolytes for a 1hr HIIT session, BUT on 30C+ days, training intensely, I suffered on a few occasions.
Now I add zero-sugar electrolyte tablets (e.g. High Five Zero) to my water, before HIIT spin, XFit, boxing. Definitely helps me in the heat.

Alternative home-made:
. 250 ml water
. 2 tbsp lemon juice (supplies potassium)
. pinch of salt (NOT lo-salt, because you need sodium)

If your class makes you sweat a lot and you feel drained this summer try this.

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 13/08/2014 12:39

Thanks, BC.

About pull ups - I managed just that:
4 'sets' - 2; 3.5; 2; and 3.5. I'm happy with that.

I've been thinking about my HIIT - which involves running around a pool in 4ft of water. I suddenly realised the same benefits - short of breath, heightened pulse rate, etc, can be achieved by running on the spot in water.

I did it this morning and felt just as knackered as I usually do! Grin

I know there are some swimmers who incorporate HIIT into their routines - it would be easy to, instead of increasing the number of strokes whilst swimming, to stand in a corner of the pool and run on the spot for their HIIT. They might feel slightly foolish at first, but it would be worth it, I feel.

Any thoughts?

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