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Fasting / 5:2 diet

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:
  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.


HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups
  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum


ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat
  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.

-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes.
-bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.


Pullups
  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow


If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE
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BigChocFrenzy · 04/04/2014 17:24

Errol Our main thread OP mentions that a few women who are already lean and exercising very intensely have had problems when doing ADF, or very tough 16:8 LeanGains protocols (most already had EDs, menstuation problems)
However, post-meno women (like men) have not reported such problems.

Also, anecdotally, it may be the most effective way of blasting the meno weight that neither conventional CR or low carb / Paleo seem able to budge.

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Dumpyandabdabs · 04/04/2014 19:32

Thanks for that. Mentioned to DH to get some weights instead and lo and behold he has just produced a set from his shed that he's had for a million years so thats saved me some pennies! Which means I can get the kettle now too and I'm going to throw caution to the wind and get a skipping rope too. Picture me walking like an old woman by next week ha ha.

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BigChocFrenzy · 04/04/2014 19:41

Sounds good, Dumpy
Right, your DH dug out his weights set, so get started !

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MissSmiley · 04/04/2014 20:02

Hi bigchoc great thread. I'm after a bit of advice please.
Monday was my first week 9 run with c25k. The previous 8 weeks had gone smoothly and I hadn't missed any runs. I used to run lots before kids. Half way through Mondays run my left calf muscle went pop and I had to hobble home! I'm devastated. What did I do wrong? First week back I could maybe understand but week 9?
Was doing JM shred on non run days too.
How long off running and what else can I do
In the meantime?

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ErrolTheDragon · 04/04/2014 20:11

MissSmiley - oh, what rotten luck. I'm sure BC will be along to offer advice but presumably there should be some upper body stuff you could do at least.

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BigChocFrenzy · 04/04/2014 23:10

Welcome, MissSmiley, but sorry to hear about your injury.
Sounds like your leg needs PRICE (Protection, Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation) for tonight.

In the morning, assess if it feels like a muscle strain or minor tear that will go in a couple of weeks, or an injury that needs medical attention.

As Errol said, you can't do cardio or really strength train the lower body muscle groups, so that leaves only upper body and abs.

I suggest training 3 non-consecutive days per week, doing 2-3 sets, 8-10 reps per set of these:

  • Press-ups, definitely the best exercise for the entire upper body, which also works the abs.

The OP describes how to build up to full ones if you can't manage these yet

  • Tricep dips on a step or bench


  • Bent-over row with a barbell or dumbbells. Choose a weight sufficiently heavy that you can only just manage 10 reps per set.


  • Australian / reverse pull-ups (you lie underneath a low bar and pull your upper half up, see OP)


  • Abs: Plank (30-45 sec per set) situps and leg raises.


Try to train 3 days per week, non-consecutive. You can do all the exercises each day, or divide them between the 3 days, depending on your fitness level.
That should keep you busy Smile
Let us know how you progress with the strength training and how well your leg is healing.
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BetsyBell · 05/04/2014 14:21

Hmm, in the interest of scientific study errol I've just measured and my nose is approx 15cm from the floor when I do BGPUs - not brilliant admittedly, but this session it was consistent. I'm sure they usually feel like they're that low for the first few then less so towards the end.

So now I think I need to find something 10cm in height and aim for that!

I'm really feeling the strain the muscles across the front at the top of my chest, which is brilliant as, from an aesthetic point of I'm trying to get muscle coverage over my bony ribcage.

I've got the whole of womanhood's honour staked on my BGs?! No pressure then bigchoc!

My DH asked me to demonstrate some of my TKD kicks and punches, as I've got a couple pads at home to work with at the mo. His conclusion after my efforts? "You could really f* someone up if you wanted too". I think he's suitably impressed Grin

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MissSmiley · 06/04/2014 00:18

Thanks big choc. My calf feels quite a bit better. Still sore but I'm not limping. I think I might try a little trial jog tomorrow to see how it feels. How much will a week off set me back with the running?
Not sure how I can get warmed up with doing some cardio?

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BetsyBell · 06/04/2014 07:20

misssmiley you can have a week off running without setting yourself back - I did c25k a couple of years ago, having never run before, and discovered subsequently that even if you don't run all winter (like me) its easy to get back into it when the weather picks up! You won't lose what you've already achieved.

Well done for your brilliant efforts so far but do rest up the leg for a few days and do upper body stuff instead.

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MissSmiley · 06/04/2014 10:10

Hi Betsy, do you still run now? How far do you go? Have you progressed in distance or kept at 5k for regular runs?

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Dumpyandabdabs · 06/04/2014 10:38

Ha Betsy loving your DH's reaction to your taekwondo kicks and punches, my 10 year old has been doing it for about 4 years now (is a blue belt) and the force behind his kicks and punches on his pad almost knock me over!! My four year old does it too but she's not quite so lethal yet Wink.

Planning a bike ride later and thought I'd give the weights a go later today so will report back.

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BetsyBell · 06/04/2014 10:39

missSmiley I haven't progressed particularly, through choice, so I tend to stick to 4k for regular runs - 5 on a good day, so 20 to 30 mins usually. I'm a fair weather runner so don't tend to get out much in the winter and have found I prefer different forms of exercise on a more regular basis. BUT my muscles don't forget even when I haven't been out for a run for weeks.

A sunny, early morning run in the spring or summer is nothing short of blissful though. My favourite ever run was on the coastal path in Cornwall.

I run for happiness rather than endurance or aiming towards anything in particular.

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BetsyBell · 06/04/2014 10:46

Dumpy I've only been doing it since January and I absolutely love it - so fab to have found my thing! I bet your 4yo looks adorable doing her front snap kicks and the like :)

My 9yo isn't interested, my 7yo is but not in going to a class so he gets me to teach him a bit. Basically he's interested int eh kicking and punching but not the discipline and art side of it... Ah well.

I really should get out for this run I'm dressed for but where's the sunshine? It's just not as fun in the grey/drizzle.

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BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2014 13:16

MisSmiley, any other runners Even when you are 100% fit, strength training is important. Muscle % is important for health, both now and in later life, so do build up your upper body too.

Muscle burns up to 7 x calories of the same volume of fat, so it maintains / increases TDEE, even as you lose weight via 5:2/IF or any WOE.
So, muscle is really important to help maintain weight loss.

btw: broader shoulders balance the appearance of muscular thighs and can make the waist look smaller.
Smile
Also, when running, add a few 20-30 sec all-out sprints to your training.
All the top runners have done this for years, (going back to Roger Bannister) , because this HIIT boosts your running performance.

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BetsyBell · 06/04/2014 13:59

Ooh, bigchoc I have a question for you: I discovered that one of local parks had installed some of that outdoor free-for-all gym equipment and there were some where you sit down and do lateral pull down and shoulder press like this and another one which was more like a chest press and the resistance is provided by your own body weight. So my question is if I weigh 9stone 9lbs and keep my feet off the ground then how much weight am I lifting? Given that I can't remotely do pull ups I find it unlikely that I'm lifting much of own body weight!

Good fun though and I was pretty worn out after a few rounds :)

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Dumpyandabdabs · 06/04/2014 15:07

She does look so damn cute betsy especially because she is still learning her left from her right so spends half the lesson trying to remember which one is which, she did her first grading last week so is super chuffed with herself. My two would definitely recommend it, there are no adults at our session otherwise I might have considered it myself.

Useful advise about running and strength exercises BC, there's just no escape from those press ups is there ha ha!!

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BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2014 16:26

Betsy That's wonderful equipment to have free outdoors !
I've never seen anything like that here in the sticks, so I am Envy

The video in the link says if you lift your feet off the floor, it lifts approx 30% of the user's weight, e.g. for someone of 60kg, that is 18kg.

To increase that, would your DS agree to sit in your lap, or would that offend his dignity as a big boy of 7 ?
Smile
I think at your fitness level, if you have access to a gym, you could soon do lat pulldowns at around 30kg and then try to increase that. Outdoors would be a great boost though, even at the lower weight.

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BetsyBell · 06/04/2014 18:58

Sorry bigchoc I clearly could have watched the video and found that out myself. It is lovely equipment - we have a different set in another local park and I'm not convinced it lasts well. But this new set is considerably more varied and better so far. We are very lucky to have a local council that campaigns hard for better local facilities - and money to spend I guess...

I will attempt to rope in one child or other when I need to up the weight!

I don't have the time or cash for a real gym so it's good to find a local free resource.

there's just no escape from press ups - so true dumpy, that could be a tagline for this thread!

Talking of which, how much weight would a press up be considered lifting - it feels like more than the 30% machines in the park - maybe half? It would make me feel better about my press up crapness if I could consider it equivalent to lifting 30 odd kilos!

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BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2014 19:38

Betsy The equivalent lifting move to a pressup is a bench press, not a lat pulldown.

Theoretically, you could measure the exact weight of your own narrow pressup by putting both hands on the scales.
In practice, to save you crash-landing with nose and chin on the scales ....
Smile
Best estimate from lifting sites is that it's equivalent to about 2/3 your bodyweight in pure force, compared to a bench press on a machine.

We compare pressups to a machine because both are easier than a free weights bench press - you have to balance a bar, you don't have to balance the Earth beneath you, or even grip it.

A pressup or a machine bench press is in turn equivalent to about 2/3 free weight.

Example: A 120 lb (54.5 kg)person who can do 10 pressups should be able to do:
. 10 reps of 80lbs on a machine bench press or
. 53 lb (24 kg) reps with a dumbbell or barbell.

This is just theory though !
Nip into a sports shop, find 2 x 12 kg dumbbells, get your DS/ DH to distract the staff, while you lie on your back and see if you can do 10 reps before you are all thrown out.
Grin

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BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2014 19:55

Great pressup variation - for those with a very strong partner and also a suit of armour lying around the place

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
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BetsyBell · 07/04/2014 10:56

Haha, love it bcf. Now where did I put that suit of armour...

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ErrolTheDragon · 07/04/2014 12:48

Did my Ri30 then some planks and push ups - dog was asleep on most of the cushions so I only had 2 under my chest today and reached them Ok for 3 sets of 10. Pretty wide arm, and didn't squish them much - somewhere around 20cm I think.

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BigChocFrenzy · 07/04/2014 12:53

Errol If your DH is very strong, maybe you could substitute your little dog for the suit of armour and try to re-create the pressup stack in the picture ?
Grin

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ErrolTheDragon · 07/04/2014 22:52

He's getting quite strong (seems to respond fast to regular gym sessions Envy but dodgy back so I'll use that as an excuse not to try that. Grin

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BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2014 14:13

HEART RATE TRAINING ZONES

50-65% of Maximum Heart Rate (Low-Moderate Fat Burning Zone)
. For people who haven’t exercised before and / or are seriously overweight or unhealthy.
. Fat is metabolized for energy use at a higher rate than resting.
. Waste of time for fitter people, because fewer calories are burnt and there is less cardiovascular benefit than at higher zones.
65-85% of Maximum Heart Rate (Target Heart Rate /Aerobic Zone )
. For all other fitness levels who want to lose weight or improve fitness.
. Moderate intensity activity that improves aerobic capacity and burns more fat than the lower zone.
85-100% of Max Heart Rate (High Intensity/Anaerobic Zone)
. Fit people doing HIIT can reaches 85-95% for 10-60 seconds and then recover over 20-120 sec to 65-85%.
. Only VERY fit people & athletes should do longer periods at 85-95% than in HIIT, because it makes the cardiovascular system work very hard.

METs
One metabolic equivalent unit (MET) is your metabolic rate at rest, sitting quietly or lying down.
A very hard vigorous workout would increase your metabolic rate to 10 or 11 METs,i.e. 10 - 11 x its resting rate.

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