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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
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37
BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2014 11:35

Good While you toe is recovering, I suggest you concentrate on upper body and abs exercises:
. Pressups (if it doesn't hurt toe ) bench press, tricep press, shoulder press, bentover row.
. Plank (depending on toe), situps, side crunches, leg extensions etc

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2014 11:46

Welcome TumTee
Smile
On FDs I suggest avoiding steady state cardio (which I'm not a fan of anytime) because this can make you weak and hungry, at least until you are used to fasting.

I recommend short, intense training, like HIIT or strength training, particularly on FDs. These will help your metabolism and fat-burning, as well as increasing fitness.

Since you sound fit, aim to train 5 days per week, 2-3 days each of HIIT and strength. Cycling is good to keep you ticking over the rest of the day.

I can suggest some specific routines if you give a few more details:
. Do you want to exercise at home or do you belong to a gym ?
. If at home, do you have any equipment like weights, exercise bike, elliptical trainer ?
Don't worry if not, there's loads of things with just bodyweight and skipping rope.

OP posts:
tumteetum · 10/06/2014 11:50

Thanks Big Choc. I can't afford a gym, and hate them anyway. I have a couple of hand weights but nothing else

ErrolTheDragon · 10/06/2014 12:22

Of you can still do 'girlie' pressups with a bad toe - narrower arm makes them a bit harder if you can already do Big Girls. Probably one of the reasons I was ok with bad toe first time round the shred, I was doing a lot of the modified versions. Better than nowt.

GoodtoBetter · 10/06/2014 12:30

Had a cup of coffee and feel a bit better. I know it's not instant, will buck up my ideas. I think I could probably do a bit of a modified shred, will try to do it this week (although mad busy and working til 10pm til friday). Maybe friday.

Thanks for the pep talk. :)

ErrolTheDragon · 10/06/2014 12:36

Glad you're feeling a bit better. Sounds like a hard week - if you can find the time to just go through the shred and work out what you can do with it next week it might help get you on track?

almostthereagain · 10/06/2014 15:21

Just wanted to say thanks bc & I'm not ignoring your advice I just have simply not had time to do anything since you gave it!
Hope to read through the threads tonight, planning an early one, will get back to it as soon I can.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2014 20:15

TumTee
I posted various routines earlier in the thread which would be suitable for you to do at home:strength and HIIT.
Let me know if you can't find them.

Strength training: POST 5 June, 20:47
Mosely's Fast Strength / cardio: POST 8 June, 21:05

Also do this:
Mosely's Fast HIIT

  • Each of these 2 routines is a full HIIT session, so you can add a jog or walk say.
  • No more than one per day or 3 total per week
  • These are for outdoor running
  1. 20 sec intervals:

. Warmup for 1-4 mins, until you feel ready
. 20 sec burst as hard as you can, at a level where you can't do another 2 secs.
. 2 min gentle exercise to recover
. Another 20 sec burst at max intensity.
. Final recovery period of at least 2 mins

  1. 60 sec intervals: . Warmup . 5x 60 sec intervals at 90% capacity, with 90 sec recovery periods in between. . Cooldown
OP posts:
GoodtoBetter · 10/06/2014 22:02

Had a long day and I'm tired. Just in from work. Eventually came in at around 900-1000 cals, so a sort of semi fast. Once work eases in the next fortnight I can get things on a bit more of an even keel.

ErrolTheDragon · 10/06/2014 22:17

good - around that mark is good prep for when your work lets up.

nims1981 · 11/06/2014 06:09

good it took me 3 weeks when I started to see any change at all so hang on in there. I'm hoping it won't be the same again after my holiday but feeling like it might.
BCF I did some of your work out ideas, I also used the running example, not exactly but it was nice to mix it up a bit. my thighs were really sore yesterday which I think added to my weakness!

MollyBdenum · 11/06/2014 06:30

Yay! I have levelled up in three of my four bodyweight exercises this morning. The one armed let me ins are going to take a lot longer to master.

twoboots · 11/06/2014 07:51

Question for you experts: does level 3 of the 30 day shred count as HIIT?

ErrolTheDragon · 11/06/2014 08:04

twoboots - IMO it depends how you do it. My approach with shred/ripped is to go all-out in the cardio intervals and then pause the dvd to recover, rather than pacing myself more moderately to get through all four of each circuit (which I don't think would be HIIT). Sometimes now I'm having to add weight or modify to get to the cant-do-another-one stage within the time.

twoboots · 11/06/2014 08:19

sounds sensible. it has taken me ages to get up to level 3, i find it more do-able than level 2. how long do you pause the dvd?

ErrolTheDragon · 11/06/2014 08:27

I pause until I feel I can do the next bit rather than by the clock. Take a swig of water, walk around the room. Obv means the workout takes longer but it seems to work ok for me and less long than doing HIIT separately.

BetsyBell · 11/06/2014 08:35

Good to see more names appearing on this board! Bigchoc is the bestest, most helpful and encouraging personal trainer you'll find. Follow her plans and enjoy basking in her approval.

I seem to be having a week off due to circumstance - no TKD classes, no running. I'm telling myself this is ok and a break is needed, which it is I think. My body must be in shock as I've been consistently training 5 to 6 days a week for several weeks. I'll use this week to re-calibrate, recover and return to it with vigour next week!

I should do some Jillian again - I haven't tried any since I became competent at pressups! She's a winter activity for me though - in the sunshine I just want to ruuuuuuunnnnn frrrreeeeeeeeee......

MollyBdenum · 11/06/2014 09:12

I am on my way to Argos to buy a skipping rope. I'm going to have trouble finding the time to run when the school holidays start so I reckon a couple of HIIT cardio skipping sessions a week are the way to go.

ErrolTheDragon · 11/06/2014 11:11

Betsy, you know BC recommends having a break periodically. Smile

BetsyBell · 11/06/2014 11:20

I know it Errol Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 11/06/2014 17:48

< wow, must raise Betsy's pay as my PR rep>

Yes, esoecially for those who exercise intensively, I recommend at least a few days complete rest from training every 2-3 months.
Also do this whenever you feel over-tired.

If the break is up to 10 days, you'll won't lose fitness and you may even find your performance improves.
For longer holidays, add whatever exercise you can: swimming, hiking, Mosely's Fitness blasts outdoors.

OP posts:
twoboots · 11/06/2014 18:36

Errol thanks so much for the advice. I tried level 3 of 30ds with pausing after each cardio interval and rested until my breathing calmed down (around 2 minutes). I noticed that the "ab" interval was much more effective in the sense that I was able to keep up with the Natalie versions and I still maintained half way decent form. The jumping lunges and rockstar jumps are still not great for my pelvic floor but that tends to improve when I loose more weight.

threestepsforward · 11/06/2014 23:48

Hi there everyone :), and sorry for the shameless interruption...

BigChoc, I'm ashamed to say I've not read the whole thread, but wondered if you could give me a quick opinion on my routine?

Having been an avid Jillian exerciser for a good few years (5?), due to various reasons, family, personal yada yada, have fallen off the Jillian wagon. I have though discovered yoga which I love.

I'm keen to keep up the cardio aspect though, and have found a really useful a site you linked to a long while back (the pdf you access after joining is called 'hiit on the go'.

Soooo, do you think this sounds sufficient:

  • yoga at least 4 times a week, ranging from sessions of 1 hour to sessions of 20 mins
  • HIIT at least 4 times a week, based on 18 circuits of 30 secs on, and 10 secs off

At least 50% of any exercise I do is 'fasted' (except for a full-fat cappuccino!)

I have to say I'm feeling pretty good, despite not being where I'd like to be in terms of WOE.

What do you think?

(btw I'm around 5 foot 6, and weight varies between 8 1/2 stone and 9 stone, give or take, but I'm not a weigher and have no scales!)

I find all your input on the 5:2 threads really helpful, so thank you :)

Threesteps

CorrieDale · 12/06/2014 07:32

Aargh! My dodgy knee is playing up again. DH suggests a knee brace. Where would I find one? Chemist? Sports shop? Will try both today.

I have tried JM's kettle bell DVD. Level one is fairly meh but I did level 2 on Monday and was impressed. Still stiff yesterday morning so it clearly got to places that other exercises haven't, and it felt like it was good for cardio too. I'm back to body pump tonight - I had to abandon it last week after the warmup because of my knee so I am going to do body weight for the squats and lunges and go hard on the chest and back.

Still on ADF and feeling positive!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2014 11:33

Welcome, threesteps
Smile
Your statistics show you must be slim, so sounds like your WOE suits you.
Also, great that you enjoy exercising. I know yoga can incorporate many static strength moves.

I've a few tweaks / additions to suggest:

Strength
You refer to HIIT circuits, so that sounds like you do different exercises within each session
Does that or does yoga include these fundamental strength exercises:

. Bodyweight: pressups, deep squats
. On Step: tricep dips
. Barbells: bench press, shoulder press, bentover row

If not, I'd suggest 2 or 3 non-HIIT sets of each per week. You can do different exercises on different days if you prefer.
10 reps for bodyweight, 30 for step, 8 for barbell (heavy weight)

The non-HIIT should be slow, heavy loading of your muscles
So, if you only do any of these as HIIT, add a slow set

HIIT
If this is not within a gym class, I suggest you vary the intervals, to apply different loading to your system

Swap one session to 20 work /10 recovery intervals and another to 60/20
Example:
. Sprinting – sprint for 20 seconds, rest for 10 seconds x 8 times
. Rope skip or burpees – jump for 20 seconds, rest for 10 seconds x 8 times
Keep the 20 sec load, 10 sec rest to ensure maximum load intensity, because this requires sufficient recovery.

If you don't already, try additional types of exercise for HIIT, e.g.
Squats, lunges, stair-climbing, situps, side crunches, kettlebell swings, exercise bike with high resistance going fast / slow ....

Do let us know how you get on

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