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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
Yambabe · 05/06/2014 23:56

Loads you can do in the house/garden that mimic what you can do in a gym.

Press-ups and crunches. Tricep dips (off the sofa). Get a skipping rope! For weights, as you are starting small, bicep curls and chest presses using a tin of beans in each hand. Progress to a carrier bag with 2,3,4 tins etc in!

Burpees are a killer but don't half burn some fat if you do them quick.

Use your stairs to do step-ups. Put a broom handle across your shoulders, hang your carrier bags of beans off either end and do some squats and lunges.

Jog on the spot or do star jumps while watching Corrie.

Smile
BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2014 00:17

Welcome vvv
You can get very fit at home, improve your health and shape.
If you fancy DVD workouts, some posters here enjoy Jillian Michaels'

Tomorrow, I'll repost some fast exercise routines from Mosely, which take 5-15 mins.

Check the my HIIT bike post for Molly, just below yours and then the strength exercises for her and almost a few posts down at 19:47

You can do 20 min sessions on 5 days per week, say alternating days of strength training and HIIT.

Also, buy a skipping rope and do 5-10 mins at top speed whenever you can. Don't worry about being cack-handed; it improves coordination too.

Oh and don't let your DH snigger.
Betsy accidentally smacked her DH on the nose in TaeKwondo practice. So tell him this is a thread for women you do NOT piss off.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2014 00:23

Pressups are the absolute best upper body exercise and need no equipment.

Also, for now, if you do any squats or lunges, you don't need weights. Just get the form correct, keep your balance and go as deep as you can.
A set of really deep bodyweight squats is excellent for the bum and thigh muscles.

OP posts:
CorrieDale · 06/06/2014 06:39

For people who need or want to exercise at home then BodyRock.tv is great. Loads of HIIT workouts, incorporating strength and cardio buoy will need to improvise the equipment (cans for weights etc) but it's effective and free. The uber-fit trainers are a bit intimidating but you can't fault their enthusiasm!

BetsyBell · 06/06/2014 07:17

vvv I'm really Angry at your DH! Has he had all his stomach muscles destroyed by pregnancies, had he given birth?!?! No. Exactly.

Start small and work your way up - you'll feel like you can barely do anything at first, but persevere because the changes come thick and fast if you keep at it. 6 months from now and you'll feel like a different person.

Combining 5:2 with regular HIIT is amazingly effective and you will be doing incredible things for your fitness and health. You can do this vvv Grin

And if your DH laughs again I've got an entire club of Women martial artists who'd like a 'word' with him...

vvviola · 06/06/2014 08:43

To be fair to DH it is quite an amusing sight - I look like a turtle that's been flipped on to it's back. After a couple of minutes of trying I even get flailing arms and legs Grin

He's one of those highly annoying people who is brilliant at every sport he tries without trying particularly hard. I think he must not have noticed my lack of coordination until it was too late Grin.

I shall start investigating some of the HIIT routines and see what I can do. If I'm coordinated enough to kind of tap dance, I should be able to manage some exercise!

ErrolTheDragon · 06/06/2014 08:57

vvviola - I'm one of the JM addicts. The first level of 30 day shred is available free on youtube if you want to see it it suits you, but the DVD is only a fiver anyway. Its short, there are beginner modifications and its progressive (e.g. you start abs with crunches and end up with situps in level 3). I do the cardio bits 'HIIT' style - ie go at them as hard as possible and then pause the dvd to recover, rather than pacing myself to get through the whole interval. The thing about HIIT (IMO) is that you do know if you're doing enough for you... just do whatever-it-is till you feel you can't do another second or two and then recover. The whatever-it-is will depend on your fitness ... e.g. I started off with 30 secs jumping jacks being enough but now I have to do them with weights to get to that point in 30 secs. Does that make sense?

Having got the JM habit, I add various of BCs other stuff as well usually (I work part time from home so can do bits in between unloading the dishwasher etc Grin).

Its such a habit now on weekdays that I feel odd this morning having decided to have a rest day (my arms can feel that I used bigger weights yesterday so I think I'm correct to do this) - waiting for DH to have a skype call at 9 and then we're going for a bit of a walk, I should get down to some work myself but I'm at the start of a new project and don't have my head in the right place for it just now.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2014 22:58

Errol You have progressed to 10kg weights for deadlifts, IIRC.
Well done.

Is that 2 x 10kg for 20kg total ?
How many reps are you doing now and how many of the various pressups ?
Hmm ^^

Good to take a rest, as you have reached a good, intense training level.
You need at least one day per week which is a complete rest from training and add any other rest-days ad hoc, when your bod tells you.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 07/06/2014 23:29

BC - yes, 2x10kgs for the deadlift. I did 3x6 on thurs. The press-ups, I'm going back to the regime I was trying before and gradually improving with, I hope, - ie 3x at a particular level till I get to 3x20 and then move down.

So - today's windsurfing -quite a nice moderate wind maybe force 2 (ie not enough for 'real' windsurfers but just right for me). When I first tried windsurfing a few years ago I had difficulty even lifting the (small) rig I was using happily today - I had to initially learn using the really small kid's ones. Also much easier carrying the board - a couple of years ago DD and I would always carry one between us, now we can carry the same boards (which aren't lightweight ones) alone.

positively9something · 08/06/2014 10:04

Well I thought I would pop in and mark my place on the thread as I have started exercising again. Yesterday was my first day back in the gym for months.

I am following a plan my personal trainer did for me about a year ago, I only had a few sessions then stopped, so my plan is this:

Tuesday 25-30 mins gym (while dd is in swimming lessons) - any tips on how to get the most out of my time? I know it's not a lot but I would like to make use of that time!

Wednesday - pole fitness class - I absolutely love this SmileSmile I did a course before and have wanted to back ever since and never got round to it. Doing pole makes me want to do other exercise so I can be fitted and stronger for pole.

1 other day per week will have a full gym session around an hour with cardio and weights!

Other than that I have a ab circle pro which I have recently started using, I don't think it's anywhere as amazing as the reviews but I think it works the obliques abit which I need.

I may also try to do some ab work at home as my belly is by far the worst bit with not a lot of tone.

Please recommend your best ab exercises especially for lower belly pouch ConfusedConfused

BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2014 11:52

Great NSV with the board, Errol
It's so good to be strong
Grin
Welcome back to training, Positive
Smile
I recommend:

For spare 20-30 mins at the gym,

. ONE of Mosely's Fast Fitness blasts on an exercise bike or elliptical (I posted some routines earlier)

PLUS one of these:
. Rope skipping
. Lifting the heaviest weights you can to do for sets of 8 of : bench press, bentover row, shoulder press, squats
. Bodyweight strength training: pressups, deep squats, tricep dips on a step

For Lower Abs:
. The plank, which really targets that pouch
If you don't do this yet, start at 2 x 15 secs. Work up to 2x 45 secs
.Leg raise Lie flat on your back, with bent legs. Lower your legs one at a time to 1" above the floor (straighten leg if you can) then raise again. Start at 3 sets of 3 each leg. Build up to 3 sets of 15.
. . Situps, hands forward, without any gadgets This ensures you really work your muscles. Also start at 3 sets of 3 and build up.

OP posts:
nims1981 · 08/06/2014 18:56

Hello, I've come to join for motivation, which I need in bucket loads!
I like running and I was doing spinning and another body conditioning class but I'm finding it so hard to do anything much at all at the mo! I could squeeze in 20 mins each morning but only at home and I only have 1 3kg weight. any suggestions for maximum results?

BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2014 21:05

Welcome Nims

Try this at home for your 20 mins; it combines cardio and strength:

Mosely's 5:2 Fast STRENGTH

No equipment required, but a skipping rope is very handy.
Do 2 exercises non-stop for 10 mins

Example Pairs:
-press-ups with sit-ups
-tricep dips with squats
-high energy (e.g. rope-skipping, jumping jacks, sprints, step-ups, mountain climb), with static strength e.g. plank, side-plank, wall-sit

Routine:
. Brief warmup for 1-4 mins, e.g. skipping or jogging on the spot
. As many reps of exercise 1 as you can in 30 secs
. Rest 10 secs
. 30 secs of exercise 2, as many reps as you can
. Rest 10 secs
. Do these "double intervals" of Exercises1 and 2 for 5-10 mins
. Brief cool-down, then stretch

Shred
. If constant yelling motivates you to go harder, I think JM is free online for level 1. Maybe someone else can say if that requires 2 dumbbells

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 08/06/2014 21:55

Hi Nim - Shred uses a pair of dumbbells for most of the strength sections (not all - some are bodyweight eg pressups) but not for the abs/cardio) - quite a lot of people start off just using a couple of bean cans or water bottles to see if they like the format before buying weights. As BC said, level 1 is available free online, and the DVD is only a fiver.

nims1981 · 08/06/2014 22:00

Thank you, I'll try that. I've been practising my Big girl push ups since lurking on this thread and I can do 5 Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2014 22:45

Well done on the Big Girls, Nims That's so good for your upper body and abs strength
Smile
Now you can do 5, you'll soon be rattling off sets of 10.

OP posts:
plecofjustice · 09/06/2014 14:44

Right, well I'm coming back to exercise! After a couple of weeks ago when I posted about being tired and achey, it seems I was sick. Asthma flared up, couldn't catch breath, all bad things :( Lots of yoga and being nice to myself has seen me right, so I'm back to the gym this evening :)

BigChocFrenzy · 09/06/2014 17:35

Glad you are better now, Pleco
Flowers
I always recommend anyone who feels tired and achey like that to take a few days rest from training. Listen to your bod.
That goes 10x for anyone with a chronic condition like asthma.

It might be that HIIT should just be restricted to walking / jogging intervals for you. Or maybe just once per week.
Strength training should be ok, but take sufficient rest breaks between sets.
I would NOT recommend continuous high intensity like the Shred.

OP posts:
plecofjustice · 09/06/2014 22:30

Thansk BCF, it's not the exercise, it's my own stupidity and pride! My asthma is worse than I'd like to admit - I keep it controlled with breathing exercises, etc, but at this time of year when it's pollenny, I've got very little additional capacity. The slightest extra hint of a cold or chestiness and I run out of capacity and stop being able to breath well.

Really I should listen to the doc and get back on the regular inhalers, but I hate having to pump an inhaler into my mouth every day and the breathing exercises get me through 80% of the time.

I'm actually hoping that getting fitter will motivate me to get the asthma under control - I was disappointed about feeling so crappy, breathless and marginal this time. That doesn't usually happen!

Breadandwine · 09/06/2014 23:35

Hi guys

Sorry to hear about your asthma, justice, not nice at all!

However, I thought I'd read something about asthma and fasting, so I googled it - and came up with no less a figure than Dr Mark Mattson

Seems that you are already doing something about your condition by IF.

And I'm sure that exercise can only improve matters.

BC, I've done half of what you suggested. I need to email or PM you back.

Lesson preparation underway here, for tomorrow's Family Learning session with 13 families. I never seem to learn - I always leave things until the last minute! And I shouldn't be on here! [prat]

Breadandwine · 09/06/2014 23:53

Just watching the ISS sailing directly above the house - first clear skies for ages!

GoodtoBetter · 10/06/2014 09:38

Hello,

Feeling a bit disheartened. 2 weeks in and haven't lost any weight. Also, had crap scales so bought some digital ones and they say I'm 3 kilos heavier than I thought I was :( Can't exercise as I dropped a wooden toy on my toe the other week so 30DS is out for a bit and the swimming pool's closed.

Knackered with work and just don't feel like doing this. Am fasting today but so so so so tempted to give up. When I did this before I lost really well but did 4:3, but can't cope with that right now.

Can't believe I haven't lost even a measly pound, not been over my TDEE on NFD either. :(

tumteetum · 10/06/2014 10:29

I have just started 5:2 and want to incorporate exercise too. I have about 5kg to lose. I think of myself as pretty fit, but that comes from rarely sitting still, lots of walking, up and down stairs etc, rather than anything very organised. I like cycling. and plan to do that at least once a week over the summer. I also plan to buy a decent skipping rope.
Is it better to choose cardio or strength on fast days or doesn't it matter?
Is there a plan anywhere of what to do how often incorporating these activities?
Apologies if these have been answered elsewhere, an overwhleming amount of information

ErrolTheDragon · 10/06/2014 10:48

tumtee - I'm sure BC will fill you in on a good program.

Good - how bad is the toe? (sympathy... I dropped a boat on mine a couple of years ago and a dishwasher a few years previously, I really should wear steel toecaps!). And... Just after I first started shredding last year I mangled it again (wading through a stream wearing sandals slipped and rammed it into a rock, almost completely but not quite detatching the toenail) ... but I managed to do L1 without trainers. Even if you can't do it all I'd have thought there would be quite a bit possible with a bit of modification. If you can work out what you can do I'm sure we can think up substitutions for what you can't. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2014 11:30

Sorry about your toe, Good I know that can hurt for days.

How do your clothes feel ? If your waistband feels slightly looser, you may have lost inches instead of pounds. That would be great, because it would mean you have lost body fat, while building muscle.
IF/ 5:2 does that initially for some people

If there is no change at all, just be patient. You may have water retention, totm or issues with stress etc which can all hold things up for a while.
Permanent weight loss is a process that happens over months, not a couple of weeks (crash diets lose too much water and muscle)

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