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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 36 - Fighting (& losing) the Battle of the Bulge? Eating too much junk? 5:2 is a healthy, sustainable way to achieve & maintain your goal weight. Join our friendly support group!

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2014 15:27

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.
Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.
This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 21/01/2014 16:19

Madhair
I do eat up to my TDEE, because its very low.
If you mentally struggle with eating up to your TDEE, work out what it will be when you hit target weight and set that as your upper limit
as of course that WILL be your upper limit for the rest of your life Grin

2nd fast day in a row (accidentally) going OK. except for popping in to SAinsbury's to buy a loaf of bread .... B-R-E-A_d (I could never go low carb!)

zedzedzed · 21/01/2014 16:21

doris poor you!

I cried my eyes out doing/attempting to do some ab work and planks from a sadistic post-pregnant american bird's dvd. I felt so weak and pathetic (and was traumatised anyway after a bad pregnancy, losing my dad mid-way,stretched out ligaments, carpal tunnel and then a rubbish c-section birth), it was just too awful to see what had happened to my body as I'd always been strong.

So I put it in the bin and started walking instead. 6weeks later I started doing Just Dance, then I felt stronger and tried Davina's 3x30min workouts. I still couldn't manage all the ab work, but I could see it was achievable and eventually it was.

But then I got pregnant again and here I am. But don't despair. Stay active. Try something gentle or all over like swimming/dancing until your muscles remember who they are. Don't give up.

Tiredemma · 21/01/2014 16:36

zedzedzed

im just doing the new davina one (fit in 15). its brilliant.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 21/01/2014 17:31

Thanks BreadandWine. I have saved it for my next bread emergency.

Tiredemma and BsshBossh - I inputted a wispa into my MFP and then haven't eaten it as I didn't want it Shock. I have mostly had home made stuff today so no clue as to calorie count but I am sure it is below allowed.

Eatriskier - oh, another milestone passed.

DottiestDoris - my stomach muscles split after having DS2 and I didn't do any exercise as was told not too but I wish I had. My tummy isn't looking too bad though to be fair.

Dropped my ipod today when doing something nice for the kids. Screen smashed, I nearly cried.

BoyCat has brought another mouse in so he is shut in the utility room until DH comes home to deal with him and it.

DD has torn her school tie. God knows how so will have to sew that up.

Have migraine. Tiredness no doubt as I can't think of another reason why.

Roll on sausages and home made wedges for tea with baked beans or a fried egg. not going to worry about the calories today as will fast tomorrow and Friday. I am going to do alternate weeks of 5:2 and 4:3 I think.

madhairday - I get the confusion of eating more to lose weight but I can assure you it is so true. Past experience has made me stay over weight and obese for longer than I needed as I didn't believe it.

zedzedzed · 21/01/2014 17:40

Ah, great tiredemma haven't gotten back to exercise yet after DD's birth, (just fast walks 4 times a day, carrying 20lb baby in sling and pushing 2yr old and buggy/shopping...oh yeah, and bombing upstairs to check if afore-mentioned babes are screaming because of death-related illnesses or just because they 'dropped a block').

Will definitely get back to it soon, just want to settle into this new woe then I'll do Davina again as it was almost fun.

zedzedzed · 21/01/2014 17:45

toffee ditto on the tummy muscle split. Knitted back together now so will be getting to it soon. Also get migraines, but less often now, I found Alexander Technique exercises helped with my alignment which was exacerbating the migraines.

Does your cat have a bell on btw?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 21/01/2014 18:31

BoyCat does not have a bell on as he refuses to wear a collar. He has lost at least four - the last one in 20 minutes - and we are convinced he takes them off on purpose so have given up. GirlCat who does wear a collar with bell also brings mice in but I am not sure her bell is very noisy. God help me if they brought a bird in.

mscnile · 21/01/2014 18:55

Good evening! I've driven 280 miles today, through fog and drizzle. Took no food in the car with me so couldn't snack, had baked pot with cheese for lunch (school dinner!) and picked up a M&S sarnie (290 cals) on the way home - but also some yummy mints Blush. Currently well under TDEE but really not hungry at the moment - what a difference a day makes (not to mention being warm!). How's everyone else been today?

lubeybooby · 21/01/2014 18:57

nearly FD dinner time at last, I've concocted a beef and veg curry and make it 281 cals. result... just hope it's nice now!

mscnile · 21/01/2014 19:02

well done lubey enjoy the curry!
eat Shock how deviant!

devoncreamtea · 21/01/2014 19:07

Tiredemma - I looked at that Davina one online - is it good? Am attempting 30day shred - but that woman is MEAN and all the jumping hurts my knees! Do you separate the workouts into 15mins everyday or whatever, or do them in one?
Well done all on fasts - did mine yesterday, fine. Not too hungry today either - lost 2lbs last week just by doing slightly 'failed' versions, so hoping for the same this week.

Tiredemma · 21/01/2014 19:09

devoncreamtea- Its actually very good.
Very intense for 15 minutes - I have done the cardio one and the arms (the arms one was brilliant).
I have Shred and Ri30 and other fitness DVD's and I have to say its possibly my favourite.

Tiredemma · 21/01/2014 19:10

Sorry- I have done just one a day but last night I did cardio and arms together.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2014 19:12

I exercise normally on FDs and feel great. I eat the full 25% TDEE, but doing vigorous HIIT or boxing I am often minus calories for the day.
No problem.

TDEE The calculated TDEE is an average value for a given height, gender, weight, age, activity level. However, someone who has dieted a lot / has come down from a higher weight / has thyroid problems / some medications ..... may have a lower TDEE than the average.

This is why some folk have such problems losing weight.
Also why others are not hungry enough to eat their theoretical TDEE.
So, you may need to experiment to find what suits you. Just be patient.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2014 19:30

Toffee
Cats generally bring in trophies to their owners either as a sign of affection or because of parenting instinct. So your cats love you and / or want to look after you.
Smile
Maybe BoyCat will learn that BossCat Toffee means business with that bell and accept that he either wears it on his collar or where the sun don't shine !
In the meantime, I remember a moggy expert advised:

  • more play at home to simulate hunting e.g. chasing a squeaky mouse (or will he think you are training him to catch more ?!) Hmm
  • dispose of any mouse he brings asap, or he'll think it's ok to keep collecting them. So woman up and put on some rubber gloves.
OP posts:
Tiredemma · 21/01/2014 19:31

Im so pleased I was good earlier today. Ive just allowed myself a double choc chip cookie. Still under TDEE too. mmmmmmm.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 21/01/2014 19:39

BCF - I got rid of three mice the other week in about five minutes and then there was a baby one yesterday, one this morning DH got rid of so another tonight was too much. They spend all day sleeping on DD and Ds2's bed and then bring presents. I hate mice and it is annoying and embarrassing.

I am so tired tonight I can hardly see so if they bring anything else in hopefully I won't see it Hmm.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasExhausted · 21/01/2014 19:43

Urgh doris and zed I agree always hated ab work. Pre kids when I was in a gym class I would only do crunches when the instructor was actually looking at me.

In spite of this I still had a flat stomach, well two kids on the stomach area is decidedly lacking in tone and I'm going to have to do something about it Sad

DottiestDoris · 21/01/2014 19:51

Almosttheren, zedzed and toffee thank you for your sympathy and advice. I'm shocked really, just had no idea I'd lost my stomach muscles...they're obviously not that useful if I hadn't realised!
I'd love to do dancing again-I was my lowest weight ever while I salsa'd without even trying, not to mention my fittest. And I met my husband through it (he was one of the teachers, lucky me). But now I have a three month old ds2 who won't sleep until about 8pm and who needs to bf until then. And I daren't go out in case he wakes and wants more.
So I may try the Davina dvd as suggested-I'm sure I can fit that into my day somehow.
Almostthere, not sure I'm brave enough for the 30 day shred. How fit do you have to be?
zedzed and Toffee...ouch! How do you tear your stomach muscles in child birth? Through c section? My second pregnancy was one to forget too-hyperemisis, unexplained frequent bleeding and a broken hand 5 weeks before due date-but I didn't have to contend with that, thank goodness

lubeybooby · 21/01/2014 19:57

oooh curry was totally lush. could easily do that another time missing the beef and ditch about 100 cals with it too. Remind me of that if I ever need a huge plate of something for 180 cals

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 21/01/2014 20:04

DottiestDoris - I have no idea how my stomach muscles separated but I had an EMCS with DC1 and with DC3 my scar nearly ruptured so it was all going on inside.

TalkinPeace · 21/01/2014 20:39

Toffee
If you look at the structure of the Abdominus Rectus muscle, its easy to see how the two sides separate as it is thicker at either side and thin in teh middle www.12weekabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/chris-hemsworth-body-abs.jpg
(gratuitous picture)

Mice you need to make your children mice monitors and train the cat to leave his presents outside ....
get the kids to pick the corpse up by the tail,
get the cat to follow and throw the body as far along the garden as they can, then with the mouse NOT in the house, praise the cat LOTS
whenever mice are brought in they are taken away.
whenever they are taken out cat is praised.
You may get them lined up by the back door, but you can train the cat not to bring them in.
Also a plant sprayer set to jet whenever the cat is touching the mouse in the house will have the desired effect.

Not2bObvious · 21/01/2014 20:43

Devin Another big Davina fan - it's absolutely doable even
If you haven't exercised in a while and it's quick. I have a bit of a girl crush on DavinaBlush I find myself nearly answering her when she chats!!! If you like her, you'll love it, if you don't well you probably won't. While I think the shred is good, it's tough to start with and my knees struggle with it. But I started doing the banish fat boost metabolism which is quite long, about 50 mins. It's a killer but I find it easier than the shred.
Love an exercise DVD, they work even better they make it out of the wrapperWink Sh*t day at work. Have had a bit of a comfort binge, but on tdee so it is what is it. Off for work for next 2 days, tough week. I seriously have to stop buying junk, I'm an addict!

Chocupid · 21/01/2014 21:06

devin and not2b thanks for the review on Davina DVD I have been trying to decide wether to buy it or not! (Have all th others)

I had a forced FD today as I have a stinking cold, nose, head and chest blocked so I can't smell or taste anything... Most frustrating, but will take the successes which ever way they come at the moment.

May buy the DVD and attempt while I'm off ill, see if I can get back into a routine.

Well done to all you fasters today!

CheshireSplat · 21/01/2014 21:25

FD no. 5 today and found it really easy! Had salad with prawns for lunch and a titchy portion of rice and dahl for tea. Have 135 left. Anyone have any delicious ideas what I can have? I fancy a hot milky drink - have to work out how many calories that would be!

Still inspire by how all you guys are doing!