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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 35 - A new year’s resolution you’ll want to keep? Try 5:2 - it's not a diet, it's a lifestyle. Whether you want to shift fat, get healthy or discover some missing self control -

999 replies

BetsyBell · 08/01/2014 17:11

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

OP posts:
zedzedzed · 12/01/2014 20:22

My friend swears by 20mins meditating every day for her anxiety, just a thought.

I don't have the patience for meditation myself.

Hope you feel better after your tablets.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 12/01/2014 20:25

(sticks head above parapet)

....... erm... just another angle....

..there is also some concern from us wonderfully caring and concerned threaders, that for the lesser suited, attempting ADF/4:3 might be a step too much, too soon.

It would be a real shame for anyone desperate to get weight loss underway, to throw themselves in the deep end and end up struggling, hate fasting, and give up altogether. Losing not only the tools to get them to that healthy weight, but also losing all the associated benefits of fasting.

When you know how well it works, and how sustainable it can be longterm; you just want everyone to get in on the action and reap the benefits. Not be put off by falling into easy traps at the start, because of our eagerness to make progress. We all know that feeling of desperation! ( if you don't - then lucky you!)

Am not saying this applies to anyone in particular. If it does, I don't know your name yet! Just saying, for any lurkers it might apply to.

(...lowers head, goes back to chocolate and Dexter)

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 12/01/2014 20:29

I have changed the reminder in my phone for tomorrow onwards so no excuse but a bit like when people randomly post CLENCH! If you want to post TABLETS that is fine Grin.

I am thinking about whether to eat. Then I think stop. You aren't hungry. It is almost like I am scared to say I am fasting Confused. I really want to get back on track but I feel so disheartened with myself.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 12/01/2014 20:31

Mmmm! I love old limp coriander - it's the BEST! Wink

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 12/01/2014 20:34

Toffee specially for you - I will add some text to the 'drink water' xx Thanks

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 12/01/2014 20:35

........ DRINK WATER ...........

and if it applies....

.... WITH YOUR MEDS!! .....

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 12/01/2014 20:36

Howzat??... Grin

Southeastdweller · 12/01/2014 20:36

Yes, I was going to mention the sustainability aspect, one reason why 5:2 for losing weight/reducing size and 6:1 for maintenance works so well. How many of us have lost a ton of weight then put it back on (and sometimes more on top)? Wasn't one reason Dr M came up with these two WOL's because he realised that these were manageable in the long-term as well as giving a plethora of health benefits? Genuine question as I don't recall much from the book and got most info from these threads.

I'm no doctor and have no medical background but agree with BigChoc that four fast days in a week isn't healthy.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 12/01/2014 20:43

Brilliant Cuckoo! Thank you.

frumpet · 12/01/2014 20:44

I thought i would try 4.3 because i have a lot of weight to lose , 5 stone ish ! Plus two of the days will be a doddle , so its only the saturday where i am going to have to put some thought into it . I imagine i will start at 4.3 then go to 5.2 after about 8 weeks , has anyone else done this ? or did you lose significantly to start with on the 5.2 if you had a lot to lose like myself . Am in it for the long haul , so not expecting to drop the five stone quickly .

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 12/01/2014 20:46

Southeast - I haven't read/watched/listened to anything except for the original Horizon programme and these threads.

But I can certainly vouch for fact that (on programme) after experimenting, he did suggest that 5:2 would likely be the most sustainable way of managing IF for longterm health.

zedzedzed · 12/01/2014 20:47

I couldn't do 4 days regularly myself...I'd feel like I'd crossed a line into starving myself more than eating almost using IF as an excuse for a disorder. The apparent sustainability and long-term health benefits are the attraction for me, the thing that singles it out as a woe are the rests between bouts of discipline, the built in lapse button that knows what I know...I will fuck up at some point so here're the tools to minimise the damage.

zedzedzed · 12/01/2014 20:54

Hi frumpet I've got 6/7stone to lose and I only started this last week... let me know how you get on...I'm def just doing 5:2 for the first month, dabbling in the 16:8 thing as I don't like brekkie anyhoo, and being slightly stricter with my NFD calories than some, but just till I adjust to portion control a bit after eating for two for a couple of years!

I'd consider 4:3 if I wasn't losing at all, but I'd up my activity and check my portions before I added a whole other day as I'm not sure I could STAY on 4:3 for long and would gain when I switched, whereas I feel I could do 5:2 forever...I think!

Good luck.

frumpet · 12/01/2014 21:11

Never thought about gaining if i went from 4.3 to 5.2 , is that very likely do you think ?
Also what is the 16.8 shennagins

farrowandballs · 12/01/2014 21:23

Just wanted to share my excitement that in my first week I have lost 2" from waist and 1" from hips. Still no scales so cant do the weight thing but I'm made up with my inch loss. Not sure how much is down to 5:2 and how much is down to only drinking once so far this year ( rather than every night...) but I'm buzzing either way! Due on on Tuesday so wasnt expecting any loss at all!
3rd FD tomorrow. BRING IT ON!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 21:30

Frumpet You might lose less slowly going from 4:3 to 5:2, however noone should gain unless massively bingeing on NFDs.

I would recommend starting with 5:2, to get used to FDs and to control any bingeing tendencies, before moving to 4:3 or ADF.

16:8 means - for a single day, or several days, or permanently - eating only within an 8-hr window, e.g. skip breakfast and eat only from midday to 8 pm. So, a daily fast of 16 hrs, during which no calories consumed as food or drink.
You only lose weight on 16:8 alone if you consume fewer total calories, so many of us older hands combine it with 5:2.

BsshBossh · 12/01/2014 21:36

I'm with zed. I had loads to lose and figured from the outset of my weightloss journey to start at the less "extreme" of a "diet". For example, when I was just counting calories I didn't start with MyFitnessPal's suggested 1200 cals a day but started with my own 1800/1900 cals figuring I then could reduce cals if 18/1900 cals wasn't working for me. I never had to go below my 18/1900 cals. Similarly when I started fasting, I thought I'd start first with 5:2 and no counting on NFDs then start counting or reduce FD cals then do 4:3 if I wasn't happy with the weightloss. Luckily I never had to deviate from 5:2.

fuckwittery · 12/01/2014 21:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MazzleDazzle · 12/01/2014 22:00

Today is the first day that I haven't weighed myself in goodness knows how long! Literally a NSV.

Night everyone and whether you've had a FD or NFD I hope it's been successful!

I am really looking forward to the next 2 NFDs!

Jobyloo · 12/01/2014 22:19

Crickey these threads go quickly! Just spent last 30 mins trying to catch up Smile already am beginning to see a difference on NFD's, couldn't finish my Sunday dinner tonight. Given myself same size portion as normal but couldn't eat it all. Managed to stick well within TDEE so feeling really positive.

For those who are struggling just take it a day at a time. Wipe the slate clean and tomorrow will be a new day. A bad day doesn't have to lead to a bad week.

MM's fast exercise book is well worth a read and really makes you think!

Thanks for the energetic discussions on here today, think the consensus is that it's all about maintaining perspective, after all we all want the health benefits...but the numbers going down is just a lovely side effect Wink

TalkinPeace · 12/01/2014 22:19

Mazzle
that is a GOOD NSV

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 22:21

Great attitude, Joby !

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 22:34

PostmanPat Yes, the new Mosley exercise book is worth buying for anyone: reluctant exercisers, hardcore exercisers like us and all in-betweeners.
I already do HIIT and Tabata a few times per week, but I intend to add a couple of routines he described, since they only take a few mins per week.

The science was excellent, with plenty of refs to proper scientific papers and studies, some of it new to me (and you know I devour science stuff)

ErrolTheDragon · 12/01/2014 22:52

Frumpet upthread asked for the number of calories in a pint of skimmed milk - just worked it out, 35 cals per 100 mls so 198.8 ...200 near as dammit. if you just google 'calories in a pint of skimmed milk' you're liable to get puny US pint.

hopefulgum · 13/01/2014 00:16

Very interesting discussions going on at the moment on the thread.

I think how we approach fasting is a very personal thing and it is so good that posters here can be honest and give their opinions. There's such a lot of good advice from the more experienced fasters.

zed, thanks for the video link. I watched the show last year and thought it made a lot of sense, but couldn't see myself fasting. It took me a few more months before I could see it was worth doing(through knowing someone personally that was doing it and seeing amazing results - particularly with her high blood pressure). Anyway, it all fell apart when I went on holiday overseas in October and then I found it really difficult to start up again, I did so just before Christmas. Anyway, what I am trying to get to, is that I watched the Horizon program again this morning (thanks to your link) and it was perfect timing as it is a fast day and I woke up hungry and almost ready to skip the fast day. Watching the program has given me huge motivation, so I am sipping on a huge glass of water and more determined than ever to continue this WOE.

When I did 5:2 last year I didn't really have any weight loss, and I think that maybe why I let it slide. I know now it was because on "feast" days I was just feasting too much, and on fast days, I wasn't being very precise and may have been going over the 500 calories.

I feel that I have better control now, as I'm now using MFP and actually really enjoying it and learning so much about portion control and how many calories some things have. I was astounded at how many calories a 100 gram Toblerone bar had. I can practically inhale one of those, but now that I know how many calories are actually in there, it will be saved for very special occasions. I am also delighted to find out that I can have a Gin and Tonic (it is very hot here in Australia at the moment) and it is only 60 calories. I thought it would be a lot more.

I was of the "I don't want to count calories, it's too much like restrictive dieting" camp, but for me, I think it will help me shift the weight I have so easily gained during my reproductive years (I've had five babies over 17 years). At least I hope it will. I love the idea that fasting will mean I can live a long and (most importantly) healthy life, without having to take 8 tablets a day like the average 65 year old EuropeanShock I think my 72 year old dad takes many more than that, and I really don't want to be like him.

I have seafood (marinara mix - all caught locally- scallops,prawns,squid and fish) defrosting, so will look forward to having that for our FD dinner tonight. YUM! I have some of the miracle noodles.Has anyone tried them in a Laksa? Did it turn out okay???

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