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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
Lazysuzanne · 07/01/2014 18:51

press ups I've not done for a while but I recon I can squeeze out 12-15.

Will we have to film these feats and post them on you tube Wink

ErrolTheDragon · 07/01/2014 18:52

BigChoc - I'm determined to get to do proper press-ups this year. Don't know quite how to get there!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2014 18:53

That's great, Lazy, 5 more than anyone else here, I think !
I've lost the knack, as I posted, but ooh, I never chinned from full hanging.
That's my aim now !
OK, you might want to build up your number, then ? [looks hopefully at Lazy].
Everyone have a think what you want to do, or suggest your own challenges (not cake-lifting)

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2014 18:57

Errol Does your DD's school have climbing frame ? Some of them have bars on which one could chin.
Also, Amazon etc sell bars which fit over doors, or in a doorway. Check out if anything fits your home and DD size.

I can make a few suggestions later for you and Cuckoo how to start BigGirl pressups.

Lazysuzanne · 07/01/2014 19:04

I'm not sure that I could reasonably do any more, not at this body weight, I mean I'd need bigger muscles which would mean eating more and gaining weight.
I already have quite a muscular upper body for a small woman

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2014 19:04

I stopped going to a bodybuilding class when he made us do sets of 50 with very little pause between - wrecked my wrists for 2 weeks.
However, I can still churn out sets of 20. I'm planning the variants I mentioned:
One-armed and the semi-headstand.

Well, we can all join as many challenges as we can survive !

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2014 19:07

I think we'll just trust each other not to fib. It would only be cheating oneself.
Smile
So, lazy, think if you fancy a challenge - increasing # pressups / joining me on the variants / Something else ?

BetsyBell · 07/01/2014 19:09

I've failed to ever get the hang of proper ones Blush

Taekwondo soon! Will report back.

BetsyBell · 07/01/2014 19:10

Just realised I haven't checked what the challenge is TBH the main challenge for me would be to just do one at all, properly.

Lazysuzanne · 07/01/2014 19:16

OK BigChocs I'll see what my press up total is...then again I'm not keen on doing loads because they do put a strain on the wrists.
My preferred chest exercises are incline dumbbell presses and ez bar close grip presses, both of which I find wrist & elbow friendly

I like press ups with handles, but as you pointed out somewhere up thread they are harder (just not harder on the wrists)

Now I sound like I'm just making excuses! Blush

ImABadGirl · 07/01/2014 20:48

so day 2 of the 30 day squat challenge and completed 55 squats, so 105 in 2 days, my thighs, arse and glutes were screaming they now feel as if they're going to drop off but I will have a nice bum!

Press up challenge sounds nails, can't do press ups myself!

EarSlaps · 07/01/2014 20:51

Cuckoo- that's 15 proper ones, albeit with arms quite far apart (which I suspect is easier). I keep forgetting to do them too, so I'm sure I could get further along if I remembered to do them more.

Had an impromptu dinner out this evening- I ate loads and I'm still really hungry for some reason. I'm on mirena, so no periods, but I wonder if I still have some sort of cycle, so this would be TOTM? It just seems to be a never ending hunger! Duck, chips, extra chips and some fish off DS's plate, lovely chocolate and peanut pudding. Normally I'd be feeling bloated and sick after all that but I just feel hungry now! Or maybe my leg muscles worked so damned hard from two days of killer that they are demanding fuel Grin.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/01/2014 20:55

Bigchoc - no, I'm pretty sure DDs school doesn't have anything like that. Girls' secondaries tend not to! Do those doorframe bars really hold without damaging the woodwork?

BetsyBell · 07/01/2014 21:04

Taekwondo = awesome Grin

I was commended on my flexibility and on the toughness of my punches!

Proper sweaty workout and I'm going to feel it tomorrow, calf and back muscles already talking to me.

Love it.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2014 21:52

Wayhay, Betsy, smash the hunks in your TaeKwonDo!
I thought you'd love it. Any martial art with a half-decent trainer is great fun and an excellent all-round workout.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2014 22:04

Well done BadGirl, your bum & thighs will be grateful, ... eventually !
You can even name change when you finish to BadBunsofSteel, because you will have earned it.

BetsyBell · 07/01/2014 22:05

No hunks bigchoc - empowered women only Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2014 22:13

CHALLENGES for everyone from beginners to hardcore !!

-If you've never exercised before and you are very unfit: set your target to walk 45 minutes briskly within a month / walk up 3 flights of stairs / ?

-If you're a bit fitter: but still a beginner: couch to 5k / last through 60 mins spin or pump / ?

  • Experienced runners: target time for 5k / 10k / half-marathon ?
  • Target special areas: squats / full pressups / one-arm and handstand pressup /bench press weights / chinups / plank / your special wish.... ?
  • Special aims: / Taekwondo green belt / ?

Rules: none really, just share with us

  • Your challenge can be a month, or a year, or no set time; just report in how you are doing and feeling.
  • You set your target, e.g. 4 pullups or 100 Grin
  • You can do 2 or 3 challenges in parallel if you want
BetsyBell · 07/01/2014 22:17

I think I'll set my own targets thanks bigchoc Grin

Erm, so yeah - I'll think about it?!

EarSlaps · 07/01/2014 22:21

My challenge- be able to do 30 push-ups in one go, plus doing Ripped in 30- I started on L2 and I'm doing each level three times a week for two weeks, so that's six weeks. Plus do Killer Buns & Thighs when I get a chance to do extra workouts in a week, then more of that once I've finished Ripped.

I need to find somewhere I can attempt chin ups- must check if there's anything at the park I could use.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2014 22:22

Errol Depends on the door ! My cellar doorway is stone, so pretty solid. I wouldn't risk it if it's a door you care about !
There are also frames you can fix to an outside wall Wall
Do you have space for a small pullup tower (from £100) ?Tower

Another idea, would she be allowed to train with a group at a boys or mixed school ?

ErrolTheDragon · 07/01/2014 22:38

BigChoc - I really don't think she'd want to do that! No idea if she's capable of doing a chin-up, I don't think she's got quite that power-to-weight ratio yet so probably premature to buy kit.

BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 07/01/2014 22:41

I want a challenge, but I don't know what. I'm definitely an experienced runner and can do a 10 K in less than an hour. I've already signed up for a half marathon. I've started doing press ups on a morning following a 30 day program. I also do a 5 mins abs work out. So do I challenge myself to be able to do so many push ups in one go or try to be able to do a plank for a length of time?

ImABadGirl · 07/01/2014 22:51

Am liking the sound of that bigchoc Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2014 23:07

Good for you, Biscuits, 10k in under an hr is a high standard.

So, you've already got 2 challenges:
Half-marathon - any target time or just to finish feeling ok ?
Pressups - BTW is that increasing by one every time, or two per week, or what ?

If you want another challenge, abs sounds good. Possibles ??

  • 3 sets x 45 sec plank ( or 30 or 60 sec, i don't know your standard)
  • 3 sets x 15 situps with hands forward
  • 3 sets x 10 side planks / curls
Whatever you fancy.