Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 23/01/2014 13:02

Bigchoc
You'll be proud of me - bosu, gripped the two sides, legs straight, feet together, 3 lots of 10 pressups

and then to see if I could
I sussed out how to do Warrior 3 standing on the bosu

  • that was in between my mile swim and my LBT class that has hiit incorporated into it
and all on a fast day!

angie attack - no idea but lots judging by the smell when we go into the studio as they come out!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2014 14:42

Tip Clever old you on the BOSU press-ups.
That shows you have a very strong core, as well as strong shoulders and arms Smile ^

TalkinPeace · 23/01/2014 14:55

Bigchoc
My posture was better than this chap - i1.ytimg.com/vi/N0lAb-Os1Ic/maxresdefault.jpg
I'll try to get a friend to take a picture ....

AngieM2 · 23/01/2014 15:53

Thanks bigchoc. Interesting calculating TDEE that way. My sedentary TDEE is about 1600 but factoring in excercise I'm more like 2000 per day. Taking off my 2 FD's that leaves me 13000 to consume on the other 5 days or should I knock off a further 3000 cals to allow for a 1lb weight loss, therefore giving me 10000 to consume on the other 5 days.....that does seem an awful lot?

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2014 19:03

Angie If your TDEE with exercise is 2000, that is a nice number for calculations. Many folk do 3 NFDs with TDEE-10%, to allow more cals on the others, say at weekend.
E.g. for 2000 TDEE:
3xNFDS @ 1800
2x NFDs @ 2300

If you want to accelerate weight loss, you could always calculate TDEE for your goal weight, or just try all NFDs with 1800.
Important: you must feel comfortable on NFDs , not hungry, or it won't be sustainable. Tune 5:2 to suit you.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2014 19:28

If you want to lose weight, you need to aim for a weekly 3000 cal deficit. Otherwise you will just be maintaining.
So:
The 2 FDs of 500 cals provide the 3000 cals
Aim to total 10,000 on the 5 NFDs (or less, to accelerate weight loss)

MazzleDazzle · 23/01/2014 20:43

Started a new class tonight. Nothing too extreme, but it offers a nice contrast to my other classes.

Bread - I finally got round to trying to 'hang'. Only managed 3 seconds Blush, but it's something I can definitely improve on.

Welcome AngieM2, like BigChoc I find it far too complicated to track my calories burned, especially on MFP, so I don't take my exercise into account. But I'm only on week 3 of finally getting back into exercising after birth of DD2! It's all just about trying to work out what works for you, isn't it? If the weight comes off at a reasonable pace, I'll keep doing what I'm doing, but if I plateau I'll try upping my calorie intake.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/01/2014 10:19

Done my usual, with 3x20 inclined press-ups. Not sure what I can use for the next level down - the coffee table looks awfully low...

Anyway, weekend off! Smile

Eatriskier · 24/01/2014 16:19

I have increased my hula hooping challenge. I've gone smaller and lower weight. Quick spin yesterday and I kept it up. Will see tonight how long for though!

Eatriskier · 24/01/2014 19:38

OK, that was quite a work out!

TalkinPeace · 24/01/2014 19:42

I've done "dancefit" for the last two weeks - my poor waist
that and I got cramp in my calf today and its not shifted yet - more alcohol needed!
but am working out how to shoulder my leg, on a bosu : will get pics next week.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2014 21:29

Errol Do you have a step ladder ? You could do your inclined press-ups on that. Alternatively, is there a convenient park with benches of a suitable height , or with arms that suit ?

ErrolTheDragon · 24/01/2014 21:38

I would have thought a stepladder would be too narrow - I have my hands quite wide apart (is that wrong?) As to doing them outside ... ShockGrin

ErrolTheDragon · 24/01/2014 22:17

Aha - blanket box in the bedroom! So long as DH isn't having a lie-in that might do.

Breadandwine · 24/01/2014 22:37

Maz! You're on your way! Grin

Here's a thread about why people sometimes don't lose weight in the early days whilst combining 5:2 and exercise.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2014 23:09

Errol Wide pressups are the usual ones. They concentrate on the shoulders, whereas the narrower ones use the triceps more, so are harder.
I would try adding a set of 8 narrow pressups, even on a higher step than you use for your wide ones.

For any advanced press-up fans
I do a variety of press-ups: wide / narrow / hands in diamond shape / one hand forward and one rear. This uses a range of muscles at different angles.
However, you need to be able to do sets of full pressups before going to these.

My PT stopped me doing plyometric pressups (pushup high into the air and e.g. clap hands before landing) just after I managed one. He said they cause far too many injuries, as do the full one-armed pressups.
There are other ways to exercise the same muscles, with lower risks.

Instead, I started doing press-ups with one hand on the floor, the other on the medicine ball, then balancing mostly on the other arm while rolling the ball forward/back or left/right to the next position for the other arm to go on the ball.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2014 23:23

Dangers of Outdoor Press-ups
I remember a few years ago I did press-ups on the ground during a park ramble.
A woman about my then age (early 50s) watched and when I had finished said in a friendly mumsy way " That's very clever, dear. Ooh, sorry, but are you a girl or a boy ?"

I gathered from her conversation that the combination of my being a flat-cheated short-arse in anorak & jeans and my doing something sporty / daft made her assume I was a teenager (!)
Her glasses obviously didn't spot the wrinkles character lines.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2014 23:48

To make my muscles work harder, I've added a set of wide and narrow pressups with feet on a bench, sort of the opposite of your inclined pressups, Errol.
Over the weeks, I'll increase the sets and then the incline.

Plyometrics I now just do a few squat jumps, or jumping up and down or on & off benches. I'm careful of my knees. Skipping can be plyometric too and is easier on the knees.

almostthereagain · 26/01/2014 08:39

Exercise halted hereSad I feel like the muscles around my waist at the back have seized up. On further investigation it is actually higher up, either side of my spine that is the root of the problem. Can anybody suggest some stretches? No idea what has brought it on but sleeping was v difficult last night. I do have back probs but usually SI related lower back issues.

Lazysuzanne · 26/01/2014 11:13

Almost, there are yoga poses that may help, try searching for yoga lying twist on youtube.

I can't remember the exact name but that should bring it up.

almostthereagain · 26/01/2014 13:56

Thanks lazy will do

BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2014 13:57

I'd try the WebMD stretches (they show 5 of them in video) for back pain:
WebMD

TalkinPeace · 26/01/2014 16:48

that link is mostly for lower back pain ... my yoga teacher has a bit of a thing about upper backs ...

on the floor, "childs pose" ie knees tucked under you

now stretch forward so that if you can your chest is along your thighs and your chin is on the floor in front of your knees
now stretch arms out in front of you, dropping elbows to the floor
now tuck chin in as tight as you can and lift head up, while keeping elbows on the floor
you should feel a stretch from behind your ears to the bottom of your ribs
breathe in to raise, out to drop
repeat up to ten times, but the elbows down and tummy on thighs are ever so important to make it kick into upper rather than lower back

TalkinPeace · 26/01/2014 16:51

to hit mid back flexibility ....

lie on the floor on your back, knees bent, feet standing, feet together
heel toe out ones is hip width, out three times is shoulder width ...
arms out at shoulder level, thumbs turned towards head to roll shoulders back
now, rock knees to one side without moving shoulders
left knee should tuck behind right knee etc
count of 6 each way ... its slow ... but relax down into the stretch as you go

BetsyBell · 26/01/2014 18:53

I've managed 3 sessions of Taekwondo this week, including some board breaking as part of a presentation event to the school kids, and today I almost managed a set of decent press ups - I mean they were more like plank down to a lower plank and up again but definitely a bit lower than I've managed before so some progress!

I love your outdoor press up story bigchoc

Did an epic walk today to buy my heavier hand weights, then walked home with them in my backpack, along with some heavy library books - 8kg all together. Then did a session with them at home. Feeling it round my shoulders now.

Legs and bum definitely more muscly than they were 3 weeks ago Shock Grin

Might well be trying for my yellow belt at the end of Feb - so focus has to be on getting my co-ordination a bit more fluid, and remembering the forms of course... [scaredface], still, at least I know I can smash those boards already Grin Grin