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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 21/01/2014 22:01

Errol
when first trying them, have your heels on a small lift (around an inch) and your feet about hip with apart. You need to keep your spine as upright as you can

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2014 22:18

Thx Lazy . Yes, very well put together - and his training routine wasn't bad either.
Grin
I already do the low bar reverse pull-ups /rows and the jump, hold and negatives. The next bit for me has been a long time coming, hindered by inadequate equipment: I would have had to go straight to wide pull-ups. My real drooling came when I saw his lovely bar

Still, I'll do chins every Saturday, using that PT trick with the rubberised barbell

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2014 22:22

With all squats, especially ATG, point your bum rearwards and try to have your weight more on the heels. Bring the arms forwards as you go down and this will help to keep the back straight.

Lazysuzanne · 21/01/2014 22:52

Bigchoc do you not find working on pulldowns any help?
I can pull down my body weight for around the same reps that I can pull it up so (at least for me) there seems to be a certain amount of cross over

Lazysuzanne · 21/01/2014 22:53

Gotta say I also drool when I see especially well equipped gyms!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2014 22:56

Squats
It is very important to move the bum rearwards and push up from the heels with squats. Do not push up from the toes or the ball of the foot, because that is more likely to lead to foot, knee or lower back injury.
Nice text & video WomanSquat
Adding a plate under the heels to help achieve this is suggested by a few trainers, but it is controversial, e.g. Plates] [[http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148989953 BodyBuilders

I confess I'm a purist about form and shriek "eeek!" at the very thought of plates: if someone has problems keeping the weight off their toes, I recommend moving the bum further back, rather than plates.

Breadandwine · 21/01/2014 23:03

Thanks, everyone, lots of useful info - much appreciate everyone's input.

To take a leaf out of Betsy's book, I shall gloss over all the comments sparked off by Suzanne's link. Wink

Suffice it to say I'm glad I'm now not the only hunk on this thread! Grin

Seriously, though, I've go to admit he is a good looking guy, isn't he!

Lazysuzanne · 21/01/2014 23:19

I often see people who struggle with ankle & hip flexibility when squatting, I guess it's a movement that many people dont even approximate in general life.

I was only admiring his physique from an aesthetic point of view Bread
honestly Blush

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2014 23:23

Lazy All pullup grips are ridiculously wide, certainly for my shoulders.
No wonder both my gyms say that no other women want to do chins or pullups: the damn equipment won't fit.

I do a weekly set, cautiously, on the assisted tower, but I feel too stretched out and vulnerable to muscle injury.
I've found the reverse pull-ups on the low bar (where obviously I choose my width) improved my strength.

I can do umpteen sets of 20 or 30 press-ups. However, pulling upwards was comparatively neglected in classes and by me, so is something I must now build up to. Seems a completely different set of muscles, but isn't.

Lazysuzanne · 21/01/2014 23:30

oh crikey dont they even have something like this

Thanks for the squats link, I noticed other useful stuff on squat technique on that site eg this

Lazysuzanne · 21/01/2014 23:33

I sometimes use two of these handles clipped onto the pulldown cable

Breadandwine · 21/01/2014 23:45

Posted too soon!

Meant to say in the light of all your advice, I shall do my kettlebell exercises on one day - and all the rest on the next.

I'm getting some extra exercise in today - in that my wife isn't well (not to worry, it's just a bug of some sort) so she's stayed in bed all day. So far I've run upstairs about 14 times. [Attentive hubby emoticon]

Just done the washing up (well, I like to give the dishes a good going over every now and again, just to make sure! Wink) - and I've been reminded that I made too much rice earlier. It seems there's just enough for a little supper, with a serving spoon of chilli non carne - and the odd glass of wine, of course.

(Or, as I like to call it, early breakfast!) Grin

Lazysuzanne · 22/01/2014 01:20

lol @ 'early breakfast'
(hope the bug is gone soon!)

I thought this was rather inventive

BetsyBell · 22/01/2014 09:12

I've taken on the early breakfast concept too - inspired by B&W - if I am tempted to have an evening nibble then I mentally decide that that's breakfast taken care of so absolutely no more eating until lunch next day. Seems to work Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 22/01/2014 10:07

Done my shred, planks and inclined press-ups (3x16). I really didn't want to do those planks but this thread coerced me.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2014 11:24

Well done, especially on the planks, Errol Smile ^^

MazzleDazzle · 22/01/2014 13:18

Went to my class after a 36 hour LOF and had a PB (since dd2) plank time of 1:40! Also, during the first half I definitely had more energy than usual. I was in the zone! Started to flag in second half, but no more than usual.

Bigchoc have you ever tried the 60 day Insanity challenge? I know you prefer to attend classes/gym etc but you would rock at this!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2014 16:06

Hi, Mazzle. No,I haven't tried Insanity. I don't even know the exact content - there are so many challenges out there.
I'm glad you find it so rewarding. Keep it up.
Smile
I train 5-6 days weekly and I must have sufficient rest periods, so if I add anything, I have to drop something else.
I have optimised my training content to deliver my short and longterm goals, so you will have to be be our MN representative in Intensity.
Smile

MazzleDazzle · 22/01/2014 16:22

Here is the trailer for Insanity with Sean T. Yes, it's a bit gimmicky, a bit like J.M., but I love it! My class teacher incorporates the moves into our class. Don't think I'd be able to handle it for 60 days though!

MrsFlorrick · 22/01/2014 17:44

Mazzle. Wow. That looks insane. In a JM sort of way. I may get this. Grin

I've downloaded a Tabata 4 part workout from iTunes. Probably need to do that one first so I can handle Insanity!!

How are you all??
I've been skiving off with my cold which has now gone so back on it tomorrow.

EarSlaps · 23/01/2014 06:52

I'd love to try Insanity, but I can't imagine fitting it in at the moment. I think I'll just stick with Jillian for now.

Had a c700 cal FD yesterday and walked about 5 or 6 miles in total yesterday. But no time for a proper workout so I'll try and fit in a Ripped in 30 today.

Got a bit of a sore throat, so I've no doubt picked up whatever DS had that kept him off school.

ErrolTheDragon · 23/01/2014 11:23

shred, 3x20 sec side planks per side (evil), 3x18 inclined press-ups. Going up 2 per day at a particular level seems to be working well at the moment.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2014 11:49

Errol That's good progression with your press-ups and planks.
As well as holding the side plank, you can also try moving your hip up and down, with the static side plank position being your mid-point in the movement.
Start at say 2 sets of 5 and work your way up to sets of 20.

Anyone with colds, sore throats etc Don't try to keep up your usual exercise routine unless you feel ok. You can go for a relaxing walk outside, well wrapped up.

Those who have recovered - e.g. MrsF ! We want to hear how hard you are working !

ErrolTheDragon · 23/01/2014 12:13

BigChoc - the next level of the shred has something like that, IIRC, but on previous attempts I had to do the modified version with the lower leg bent. Will be interesting to see how I fare with it the week after next.

AngieM2 · 23/01/2014 12:42

Hiya, jumping in and joining. I'm a 5:2er. Regular excerciser. Pump, spin, body attack, HIIT etc, about 5 hours a week. Set my TDEE as sedentery but add them as an extra to NFD's. Little question....does anyone know a calories burned guess for 55 mins of body attack? Cant find it anywhere. In spin for 45 mins would burn around 400 according to the bike (but I take this as a guide rather than guarantee). I do all the attack on 'high' options. MfP works it out too high IMO. I'm 44 with BMI 24 if thats of use.

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