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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2014 22:36
Angry As a mesomorph, I am happiest exercising a lot and I naturally build muscle when I do so. I Googled training for female mesomorphs, just in case any new ideas out there for me to try: Although male mesomorphs are encouraged to lift as much as they can, it is assumed I am frantically trying to reduce muscles in order to be feminine. WTF !

Yes, I know some (difficult to find) lifting sites for women, but they mostly want to show off muscle.
I don't particularly want to either build or reduce muscle, just improve function and maintain health.

I'd already updated my program of IF, HIIT and lifting by reading a lot of science, but I am irritated that almost all non-scientific articles for training females are focused on appearance and looking "sexy". It is so last millenium.
OK, vent is over.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2014 22:41

Betsy Board-smashing. I bet that kept the scallywags quiet.
Shock
Sounds fun ! Oh and do take your new weights for a walk and see if you have your own outdoor exercise story to tell. Smile

MrsFlorrick · 27/01/2014 08:21

Morning all.

I'm back on the wagon. Did JM Level 4 Ripped in 30 yesterday (picked up where I left off).

Given I've had lots of time off exercise lately (this month), I thought I'd be in pain today but I'm not!

Clearly Ripped isn't hardcore enough. Perhaps I do need Insanity! Yikes. Grin

How are you all doing today??

Planning another JM session this morning after school run and once Ocado have been.
Plus house needs a spring clean which will be a workout (over 4000 sqft and a lounge fully wood panelled to dust Hmm).

No longer have a cleaner thanks to DH and his good ideas. Apparently now DS attends pre school a couple of days a week I can usefully clean! Shock And apparently he doesn't think he is required to participate.
H is currently trying 5:2 with me (he doesn't need to lose much. Just a stone which he has almost done already). Perhaps he will clean when I tell him how many calories cleaning takes WinkWink

Megrim · 27/01/2014 08:26

I found the Jillian Michaels 30 Day Shred DVD in Asda yesterday for a fiver. Guess I have a date with Jillian this morning (gulp).

MrsFlorrick · 27/01/2014 08:28

Oh Almost. Just seen your post re back pain

If you have SI issues and muscle pain, you need to release the muscle spasm.

My physio told me to roll up a large bath towel into a long sausage shape. Put on floor or other firm
Surface. Lay down on top of it so that the sausage is under your spine running along from neck to top of your bum.
Lay like that with arms out to side and very relaxed (deep breathing) for 5 to 10 mins. That should release them.

Or if you have one of those physio firm foam rollers you can lay on that in the same way.

MrsFlorrick · 27/01/2014 08:29

Megrim. Grin Dig deep!! Fight for
It! Grin
JM will whip you in shape!

Come
Back and tell us how you got on.

BetsyBell · 27/01/2014 08:32

MrsF Sometimes the pain pops up after a couple of days if you've not worked out for a while - said as a regular (hopefully now reformed) binge exerciser!

Good work though :)

My Taekwondo club seem to think I'm an old hand at the gym, I had to explain that Jillian taught me everything I know - well, the evil stuff anyway. That and bigchoc's invaluable advice of course Grin

re. Board smashing - yup, I'm expecting a bit of respect around school today! Don't mess with Mrs Bell , hee hee.

Megrim · 27/01/2014 09:53

I'm not sure I want to be whipped by Jillian Michaels, she looks more than a bit scary on the DVD cover.

I am just going outside and I may be some time ...

MrsFlorrick · 27/01/2014 10:08

Megrim. JM is fully of cheesy chat. Workouts are great. And quite short just short enough for small DC not to wreck havoc.

It's been a life saver for me as I've not been able to leave DS in gym crèche (we were banned because he wouldn't settle and kept wailing and wailing). Hmm And I can never count on DH to be home at a reasonable hour to babysit so I can go Hmm

I can start swimming regularly again now that DS is settled at pre school. And along with continued JM, I'm sure it will whip me in shape some more.

almostthereagain · 27/01/2014 10:14

Thanks tip choc & mrsf I have been gingerly attempting some stretches & super strength pain relief is helping, also booked in to see physio tomorrow. So disappointed it's halted all exercise Sad
I love JM 'this is not your mother's work out!' Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 27/01/2014 11:24

OK, so shred L2, followed by 3x10 press-ups (went for the coffee table, 40cm tall I think), 2x30 sec side planks per side, then 3x10 narrower arm press-ups using kitchen counter.

Megrim, if I can do shred I'm sure you can!

Megrim · 27/01/2014 11:25

Ooooh, just done my first JM workout - not too bad, I recognised quite a few of the exercises from my old Lorraine Kelly workout video (probably shouldn't admit to having a Lorraine Kelly workout, but I loved it, was so nice to see someone that looked normal getting some of the exercise a bit muddled and saying things like "oh, are doing that all again right now?").

JM's cheesy chat was accompained by non-stop yowling from the cat, who was tee'd off that I'd shut her out whilst I was bouncing round the living room. I did graciously allow her in for the stretchy bit at the end.

Wonder how much I will ache tomorrow?

ErrolTheDragon · 27/01/2014 11:39

Megrim - if its the shred, the norm is that for the first 3-4 days you'll wish you lived in a bungalow. But then it eases off. Smile

Megrim · 27/01/2014 11:40

Hmmm. Don't live in a bungalow, and live on a blerdy great big hill too. Oh well, too late now.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/01/2014 11:46

Do some extra quad stretches - unless you're really good at balancing on one leg hold onto something.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/01/2014 12:04

MrsF Your DH is a total arse who has no respect for you.

Since I work ft, one of the ways I enable sufficient time for the gym is to have a cleaning crew who do absolutely everything including the windows. A janitor takes care of the outside, minor chores, taking out bins etc
I recommend this to all who can afford it and if your DH is supposed to be a high-flyer, he should be able to.
Try asking when he has guests : "Are we too poor for a cleaner or au pair ?"

You said you thought you originally had an agreement with him that you were an equal partner, so that means having DC-free time for yourself, regular gym-time and no scut work.
btw, you also think you have an agreement with him for no more kids. i wouldn't trust that one either.
Can you use the time the DCs are at school to re-train, so you can resume an independent career ?

BigChocFrenzy · 27/01/2014 12:07

Megrim The 1st couple of weeks of anything new can be a bit painful, but you improve amazingly quickly and then you feel so proud of your fitter bod. Go do it !

TalkinPeace · 27/01/2014 12:46

MrsF I agree with BigChoc - your DH is being an arse of the first order.
Stop cleaning his side of the bedroom, at all, ever. Treat him like the teenager he is being.
Kids are on INSET today. DH went for his swim first thing, then while I was at yoga and my swim he hoovered the whole of the downstairs.

Megrim · 27/01/2014 13:08

Mrs F - get the cleaner back and just (ahem) neglect to mention it to DH.

DontBeBlueBeARainbow · 27/01/2014 15:02

Hi everyone, great to hear about your workouts, aren't you all hardcore!

Anyone else like Cathe Friedrich's HIIT Double Wave Pyramid. I was introduced to it by my gym, now I've changed gyms I bought the download. The great thing about it is not only is it HIIT, but also I feel I can face it on FDs, as I really can't face running on FDs. Can't believe how quickly I've been able to increase number of intervals, must be getting fitter Wink

Also wanted to mention: in the OP it says you can join gyms from £30 per month, but some budget gyms are as little as £15, which may encourage others to look for budget gyms in their area.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/01/2014 15:32

DontBeBlue I think HIIT really is easier to do than running on FDs, because interval training, especially HIIT, tends to reduce appetite
whereas running, swimming and other activities with fairly constant demands on your body tend to increase appetite.
This difference has been reported in studies.

Thanks for the info about £15 gyms. Wow ! Gyms really are cheaper than a few years ago in some areas. I know another poster here was saying the cheapest gym in her area was £70. Let's hope there's a budget gym coming her way soon.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/01/2014 15:45

Cripes, Tip, you've got a good, well-trained DH there. No, seriously he just sounds like a decent bloke who cares about you and respects you.

Megrim · 27/01/2014 16:15

You can join our local uni's gym (which includes use of a 25m pool) for £31 per month (£24 per month if you pay up front for 12 months) off-peak, which is any time up to 4pm on weekdays and all day Sat and Sun.

TalkinPeace · 27/01/2014 16:37

Bigchoc
He is well trained, but as per the video I sent you, rather prone to making a mess as well!

Megrim
I'm a life member of my old student union and I could probably go to that gym cheaply, but my expensive one is walking distance from the house and has an outdoor pool Smile

Megrim · 27/01/2014 16:43

TiP too bloody cold to do outdoor swimming here (unless you count open water in a loch with a wet suit). The uni is my nearest decent facility (other than the local school) and you don't need to be an alumni or student.