Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
MazzleDazzle · 20/01/2014 20:27

I do these types of squats. Pretty tame and boring! I might try weights.

Lazysuzanne · 20/01/2014 20:32

I cant see a problem with them, you could try holding a weight, say a 5kg or 10kg disc to your chest?
Or use a barbell, although centre of gravity is shifted with a weight across your shoulders, it may well feel different

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2014 21:01

Mazzle Bodyweight squats done ATG (Arse To Grass), i.e. very low, bum below knees, should be quite strenuous after the first 10.
Our CrossFit group has some pretty fit folk, but after 1 min continous squats, we are all gasping.

LazySue That's what I meant: we put a rubberised barbell on top of the tower, so that I could grip this for my chins. Rubber doesn't seem to slide when both the PT and I did a few reps - I'll be very cautious, because I'm not allowed to tie the barbell to the tower in any way.
Yes, I asked why no really narrow grips and it seems the blokes only want at least shoulder width Hmm , both my gyms, so all grips are far too wide apart for me.
My doorways at home are too low / too precious to use any of the doorframe versions, so this is as good as it gets.

Lazysuzanne · 20/01/2014 21:13

I guess with most gym there's something essential missing, neither of the ones I use has a proper calf raise machine.

What about 2 handles clipped together, or a tricep rope...hmm

EarSlaps · 20/01/2014 21:38

itunes.apple.com/gb/app/7-minute-workout-seven-high/id650276551?mt=8

Betsy- that should link to the app I use. It's nice and straight forward.

Breadandwine · 20/01/2014 23:33

Thanks, BCF, I must say I'm beginning to enjoy my kettlebell.

The patio was in no danger, thanks, Bssh. Though I must admit I didn't even think about it! Blush

Well done on your new height, B&W! That must automatically lower your BMI then with no additional weightloss!

Something else I hadn't thought about - thanks for pointing this out, Banderchang!

It's now gone down from 20.57 (calculated on the 52fastdiet forum) to 20.0 (from thefastdiet.com).

Breadandwine · 21/01/2014 00:00

Just done my exercises - and I've upped my planks to 3 x 60 seconds, inclined. I found these just as easy as straight planks.

In the last few days I've been weightlifting with whatever I've come across, so:
60lb plus Sumo dead lift x 10 (my 5 gallon beer bucket filled with homemade stout)
17lb plus press (L and R) x 10 (a demi-john filled with said stout)
10kg 2-handed overhead press x 10 (sack of Wiljas - my favourite spud!)

Grin

Question re breaks between exercise sessions -
How often should I be doing them in a week?

Quick recap of my regime:
3 sets of 20 push-ups
3 x 50-60 seconds plank
3 sets of 10 pull-ups
3 set of 20 squats (holding my 3kg kettlebell)

2 sets of kettlebell exercises as detailed above.

Plus I do my HIIT exercise every other day.
And daily I do my 100 laps of a small pool - jogging flat out, not swimming.

Reason for asking is that I really struggled with my pull-ups tonight, when I breezed through them yesterday! Confused

Lazysuzanne · 21/01/2014 00:11

Others will have difficult opinions on the optimal frequency for strength training Bread, but at least one days rest between body parts is usually recommended. (to allow time for muscle fibres to repair)

I work back with shoulders about every 4 to 5 days so I'd be doing pull ups every 4 to 5 days

Lazysuzanne · 21/01/2014 00:12

I love the sound of your home gym :o

Breadandwine · 21/01/2014 00:17

Thanks, Suzanne!

I'm guessing you meant 'different' rather than difficult?? Grin

Lazysuzanne · 21/01/2014 00:31

Oops yes, auto correct fail Blush

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2014 18:51

B&W Marvellous selection of "weights" you lift and excellent routines. Does Mrs B&W know you are lifting her larder ?
Hmm
I would advise doing HIIT 3 times per week, no more (unless they are those very short Fast Fitness blasts). Similarly, weight training up to 3 times weekly. However, you can just hang freely, without chins, say 20 secs most days, to maintain your new height !

Do make sure you have at least 1-2 days per week rest from training, so just take relaxed walks if you want. Recuperation time is important to let your muscles grow in peace. Never start training if you feel tired.

As LazySuz advised for lifting, allow at least one day rest for any muscle groups you train, so do something different the following day(s). Depending on intensity, you may need to rest some groups for longer.

My PT yesterday advised me that 3 sets of 8 pullups are so strenuous that I should do them only once per week. I'd independently decided this myself. Pull-ups really tear the tiny muscle fibres more than most other exercises, which is why they are so effective. However, it means the muscle groups involved need time to repair and become stronger.

Sadly no studies on women, but I've read of studies with blokes in their 80s and 90s who have started lifting programs. Within months they all tend to improve health markers, balance, cognisance, obviously muscle size and strength.
So, you are a mere stripling !
Smile

almostthereagain · 21/01/2014 18:59

Well I feel put to shame with all this activity & I was feeling quite pleased with myself!! Did a 40 min dog walk, fast pace, 30 day challenge squat, abs & plank then some toning pilates/yoga exercises. Hoping to see some improvement on tummy, inner thighs & arms by the end of my month.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2014 19:33

Hialmost Great work.
Don't worry, none of us can compete with B&W !

Lazysuzanne · 21/01/2014 20:33

here's a nice young man explaining how to progress with your pull ups:

for some reason I found it rather hard to concentrate on what he was actually saying so I'm not sure if it's helpful or not Blush :o

TalkinPeace · 21/01/2014 20:44

Bigchoc
Our gym now has a TRX station with monkey bars running down the middle - some of the girls do upper body work on there of various sorts ....

BetsyBell · 21/01/2014 21:02

earslaps Ace, thank you x

I made an effort to focus on my form in Taekwondo today, rather than the frenzied mess I usually am. So my technique is improving but I burnt fewer calories (and have actually managed not to injure myself! Woohoo!)

Hoping to do some cycling tomorrow and maybe but some more hand weights. I currently have 1.5kg so would it be best to go up to 2.5kg?

I'm having to gloss over B&W's posts as I can't compete with that regime!

I'm also ignoring all talk of pull ups as I know I absolutely can't manage those.

Yet Grin [optimistic face]

MazzleDazzle · 21/01/2014 21:15

Loving 'ATG' BigChoc! Will try squatting as low as I can.

TalkinPeace · 21/01/2014 21:17

must admit, all of my instructors over the years have said that a dynamic gym squat should go no lower than horizontal thighs.
yoga squats go right down - bum to heels, but they are much slower

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2014 21:30

The ATG squats need to be done slowly and bodyweight only, unless you are a real specialist.
Dynamic squats definitely no more than 90 degrees and if they are really fast, then they may just be intended as half-squats.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2014 21:38

We do ATG in boxing and CrossFit - I did a few dozen this evening in the latter. We added light dumbbells, to turn into a full shoulder press as we rose. Doing this combo for the full minute in the circuit was surprisingly tough, considering I only had 4 kg per hand.

We also did the one arm on a medicine ball press-ups, which are tough, both on the shoulders and core.

btw, Tip I did diamond press-ups on a wobble plate yesterday and thought you would like this. You could grip this or a BOSU at the edges, to save your wrists and you would enjoy the stability exercise that the wobble brings to your core while doing press-ups.

ErrolTheDragon · 21/01/2014 21:41

How long down and up is 'slow'?

TalkinPeace · 21/01/2014 21:46

errol
breathe out for a count of at least 4 seconds (I work to 8) on the way down and then pause for 2 at the bottom and breathe in on the way back up at the same speed, hold for 2 at the top

TalkinPeace · 21/01/2014 21:47

BCF will play with the bosu on Thursday : I like the sound of those

ErrolTheDragon · 21/01/2014 21:51

Might try some of those tomorrow just for fun.