The 5:2 thread number 27 - Season of fasts and mellow rumblingness (with apologies to Keats)

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Morning all. Weigh in Friday for me again but no change in weight. NFD Friday - woohoo!

Head the only thing I can say from personal experience is keep doing what you're doing - it may take weeks, months, but if you're doing everythingby the book then eventually your body will realise you mean business and reduce its setpoint weight. My setpoint weight was 11-ish stones and that's where I stalled for 4 months. However I've heard others say that a change is good - eg do something different to surprise your body eg a different form of fasting, or more/different excercise, or a fasting break - just do a different form of calorie reduction for a few weeks...

not much help here I'm afraid hitc, I have no clue why I was losing weight so quickly. I know now I'm definitely in an active bracket now but I certainly wasn't at the start. whether my experiment into slowing the loss down is working I don't know as aunt flo arrived and my scales are showing a big leap up (but my clothes are fitting just fine still and the take measure hasn't moved).

have you tried the usual things? fling in an extra day/do 6:1/have a complete blow out/have a few under and a few under days?

Head do you eat exactly TDEE every NFD? If so then I'd recommend doing high-low days to mix it up a bit.

Pollysbubble - I agree. When I did Monday and Thursday, to start with it was okay but then it got difficult and I became really cross about it. I tried Mon, Wed, Fri and found that easier.

Alibabaa - I guess they have meat or fish nearly every day so other stuff may seem not quite as good. I once did jacket potato twice in one week and ds1 was very rude about it. Pay day today but I have said I am not food shopping until more of the cupboard has been used up as they need to stop being so fussy. Yesterday I offered noodles, rice, pasta or cous cous and ended up doing noodles for two and cous cous for one as they wouldn't eat each others choice and dd does not like pasta - unless it is spag bol. My own fault for being too obsessed about cooking different things. Yesterday's tea was ridiculous. Noodles/cous cous with peas, carrots, green beans, olives and a tiny bit of pepparami (I figured they needed some kind of meat/fish/protein and they didn't want tuna.) I had to remind them I had said there was no money for food shopping this week and they had to just eat what they were given and stop being so fussy. I don't want to serve things I know one or more of them wont eat but I am getting very fed up with their changeable eating habits. They are used to unusual combinations and I see nothing wrong in it. DS1 likes to have mint sauce with whatever roast we are having, not just lamb, and it is definitely a pick your argument does it really matter moment. If I just served something up though it would be wasted if they decided they didn't like it but I can't keep track with what they will and won't eat. Then later they are wanting toast/cereal so no wonder we run out. DS1 went to school without breakfast yesterday unbeknown to me as he said there was nothing he liked. Just the three choices rather than 6 .

Hi hitc yes just been on a plateau too, not for long, 2-3 weeks.
Arguably 6 weeks as I was 11.7 before my hols, came back over, lost it easily - then stalled.

I had been re lets say 'intuitive' about what I ate on nfds! As i said earlier i think im now too slim -ie require less cals to maintain - to get away with that.

however it dawns on me that another factor is that I was moving my mother in law into her house, taking my ds to the park and doing buggy fit,

Now mil is moved, I've fallen off the buggy fit wagon and ds is expending his energy at school.

Yesterday I did 2/3 of my first shred and signed up to buggy fit.

Are there any factors you are not considering?

Also I bet the scientists will one day explain plateaus. They don't go n forever.

argh. just stepped on scales. 3lb. thanks aunt flo.
gonna throw in a mini fast today, fell far more up to fasting but am looking very forward to tonights planned dinner and some wine in front of strictly. will also allow me a good run on my cross trainer that I didn't manage yesterday.

hitc I'm not sure why it worked so well for me. I do exercise quite a lot, and walk to work although it's only 10 minutes! I stuck pretty close to TDEE during those first few months (went from 63.7kg to 56kg in 12 weeks) and did not often eat over that, even though I was down to 1600 and I refused to ever go below that, it's too restrictive. When I reached the point of bouncing around the same couple of pounds I did a liquid fast every other week and that seemed to help. Things are pretty stable now and I'm about 4kg lighter than my original goal, which is about 2kg lighter than I was when I got married in 1996. I'm 45 so it's not like I've got youth on my side!

Ok so yesterday a fast day, did fine till kids wanted to go out for pizza (sch hols here)! So am doing it for a third time this week today, liquid only till 7 or 8pm. At least i don't have to think about food!

Post fast friday weigh in sees me still the same as last week so looks like I'm maintaining too. PITA. Am going to spend the next 2 weeks sticking rigidly to TDEE and see if that helps. Am going to Venice in 2 week so could do with a bit of a loss before then. Grrr

eatriskier I have always assumed we put on weight when due on and actually have out period but I can't work that with it just been a case of getting rid of what we already have in our bodies.

Rice pudding in slow cooker for kids. Going to make tomato and feta cheese muffins now.

MissS - ah ok, yes mine are meat and fish fans too and peer around the table hopefully if there is none on offer. Which is rare actually as DH and I are carnivores

We are off for a long weekend for our wedding anniversary in 4 weeks, so that is an added motivator to lose a few extra pounds. I must start doing some exercise to tone up a bit, I've been very lazy on that score.

Have good days everyone!

My muffins look amazing. Unfortunately I can't have one as I am trying to do an extra FD and I didn't weigh the cheese or tomato I put in them so have no chance of calorie counting. Plus I have treated DH and I to a pizza for dinner tonight after last nights was such a disaster. Blinking kids.

I've maintained this week. I normally weigh on sat morning, but seeing as yesterday was a FD and today is NFD I can't see it changing. I'm gutted.

I haven't done anything different. I probably had 600 cals yesterday in end, but still. I always stick to my TDEE, often lower (I struggle to have 2000 calories a day).

Only thing I can think is I had parents evening on weds, so school provide sandwiches and chips at 4.30pm. Not ideal, but otherwise it mean waiting until 9pm for dinner. So I had sandwich for lunch, sandwich and chips for tea, lots of carbs.

Urk...DD3 was up eight times in the night, she usually sleeps through, so I'm not used to it any more! Lovely housemate brought me very strong black coffee though

I'm fasting today. I do find it harder when I'm tired as I know I would perk up if I ate. However, I'm busy enough today that it is easier to just not eat.

Can anyone answer a couple of questions about maintaining though as it seems like it is in sight for me.

Is it just a case of experimenting to see what works best?

Any ideas for eating patterns to try out?

MissS. I don't know how you do it, being a short order cook for 3 differing tastes (5 if you inc you and DH). I used to do this with DP, DS and I but I really resented it, so I stopped offering choices to DS and DP and told them this is what you're having for dinner. I always put bread on the table if its something one of them is not too keen on. (Both DP and DS are picky to the nth degree btw, both resistant to new foods - they drive me potty!)

WI day today. Yesterday was a fast day. I have lost 1lb this week, which is a total loss of a stone , brings me down to 7st 12 and brings my BMI down to just under 23. I have another 5 lbs to lose but I'm in no hurry - I'll get there when I get there.

It seems I give them choices when I can't decide what to make the kids or in the vain hope they will all choose the same and actually eat it. DS2 has decided he doesn't like chicken nuggets when he has always eaten them whether they are shop bought or home made.

I bought a bag of frozen fish from the co-op this morning and they will have that with some veg and maybe rice as I haven't got any potatoes. I am definitely cutting down on their meat intake.

I would love a really good week of suggested meals for the kids that would give them everything they need and fill them up. I definitely feel they have got fussier, expect fruit and then a "proper" pudding and when I was ill I went for the easier life but they need to stop being so annoying now.

I really want a muffin. I am hungry.

Hey there hitc, I'm the same as you. 16lbs since first week of Feb, so very slow compared to some.
However, what keeps me going is knowing that I'm the lightest I've been since I did some hardcore (and god, it was hard work!) weightwatchers after DD (who's now nearly 9yrs old). As this has felt, and continues to feel, so straightforward I feel like it's a way of eating for the long term for me.
I have seen a pound or two shift in the last week so am aiming on getting down to 10st 1 or 2 ideally as will then be well within healthy BMI.
I don't really have any tips other than to change something! Eat more / eat less / exercise more / have some time off exercise etc.....

Weighed in today.
Holding steady at exactly 57kg = 9st = BMI of just under 21
Could do with shifting down a few pounds, but considering I hit 9st in December last year I'm pretty chuffed at how easy it is to maintain on this system.

Headintheclouds
Really silly thing on plateaus - have you re worked out your TDEE for the weight you'd like to be and a slightly lower level of exercise?
You'll only drop your calories by maybe 100 a day, but that might jog the system into doing what you want.

And everybody remember that once you get slim, to stay there your TDEE will be low. Mine is 1523 ... and will drop by around 20 for every year older .... That is why 5:2 will work - because the fasts will let you relax on other days without putting any weight back on.

Postmanpatscat. I wasn't being competitive. I really want to get rid if the last 13 lbs quickly.

That said I am not sure I am ready for a whole day with nothing but tea and water. Or even a couple of cup a soups thrown in.

I've done well this week. Slightly went awry this morning as I helped out the school PTA with a charity coffee morning. I served about 100 cup cakes this morning and sadly couldn't manage to keep my hands off some naice shortbread biscuits. Ate 6.

It's not a FD today but still. Biscuits are evil sneaky things. So small and yet over 100 cals each.

DS was up 6 times last night with teething. Followed by DD accidentally wetting her bed at 5am. I am completely shattered. I wish I could phone someone to take the DC for a few hours while I closed my eyes. Sadly we have no family within 1000miles and DH is away on some work thing and I am not even sure he will be home tonight. Ugh. I am planning a cheeky glass of wine later.

Sorry not very good for morale to tell everyone on a diet thread about wine and cake!

I cracked. Had a muffin. Delicious.

thanks to all who've tried to help.tip I had calculated my TDEE to 1580 for a 49 yr old shortish(5'3'') on least exercise .Recalculated at the weight I want to be brings it down to 1550 , only 30 cals difference, but Ill give it a go. On NFD s during week I eat less than TDEE ,but definately more at weekends .Maybe I need to be far more rigid about measuring. For example I guestimate milk in tea/ coffees because its semi- skimmed and about 100 cals for 200 mls,so I just quick add that into MFP - and be a bit easier on the wine at weekends! Looking at the positive at least I know what to do to maintain / plateau!!
Have a great weekend everyone ,
!

2 lbs down woop woop!

I'm on a weird weight loss pattern. alternate; maintain one week lose 2 lbs the other. Least its all in the right direction.

Bring on fish and chip friday followed by a 5k parkrun sat morning! ying and indeed yang

Fast day no. 10 here and I am struggling again. How do some of you find FD easy? Or feel more energetic on one etc? I really struggle.
I had hoped to doing 16:8 today but cracked at 1pm and had lunch. Was planning on just having protein & veg but its so cold in our office that I had a jacket potato with my prawns and veg. The soup was sold out by the time I got to the canteen. And now I've had a banana so I reckon I've used up at least 400 of my 500 cals. Sob. I'm going to have to exercise a lot of will power in the supermarket this evening as otherwise I'll just jump over the counter in the bakery bit & eat all of the cakes!
Desperately hoping to have broken the 11st barrier tomorrow at WI. If I have, it will be the first time since Jan 2009. I am in an outfit today that I last wore back then.

Whooee that's the walk over. Walking on sand is exhausting and those pesky teenagers go at a fair lick. FD yesterday went fine. I thought I would be ravenous this morning but couldn't even manage all my breakfast. Resting my achy bones...

NSV: down a back size! Also, i saw that my fat is droopy rather than solid so there has defo been loss but I need to tone - significantly.